Comment by blackoil

Comment by blackoil 5 days ago

22 replies

Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver. These companies will benefit from breaking current monopoly of TSMC.

mallets 5 days ago

Samsung is already in a much better position for this. They have external customers and experience facilitating them. Unlike Intel's track record which doesn't inspire confidence at all.

  • close04 5 days ago

    Intel has something Samsung doesn't. It's a US company operating mostly on US soil so the US government has a vested interest to keep this strategic asset going for as long as possible.

    • epolanski 5 days ago

      Tech hardware is a cutthroat business, tech companies are gonna order at Intel if it has something that others don't on a business point of view: more performing, cheaper, faster delivery.

      The US government can wish and encourage all they want, as long as Samsung, TSMC and any other produces better chips for less, the money will flow there.

      • DanielHB 4 days ago

        Governments can keep companies working for as long as they want. Usually that makes them less competitive over time though and it is all done at the cost of the tax-payer and adjacent industries.

        The Chaebol model of Korea is a way to spin it while avoiding the less competitive part by forcing the companies to compete internationally while keeping the domestic market locked into the Chaebol offering.

        For example the US gov could force (or subsidize) all datacenters in the US to use intel chips made in intel foundries located in the US. But on the international market intel would need to compete with its rivals.

        This is all theoretically possible, but very hard to pull off politically. And it is not necessarily good for the country long term and certainly a tax to the country citizens/adjacent-companies in the short term.

      • close04 5 days ago

        If a government finds a sector or company to have strategic importance they will not let it die. The rest is free-market absolutism that never comes to be. I believe today more than ever the US considers Intel to be of strategic importance.

        > the money will flow there

        Which money? The CHIPS act [0] isn't only for the ones who produce "better chips for less".

        [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act

zimpenfish 5 days ago

> Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds if they have confidence in its ability to deliver.

Given Apple's history with Intel's ability to deliver, I'm guessing the confidence there isn't high.

  • walterbell 5 days ago

    Are you referring to 5G radio modems or another chip?

    • indemnity 5 days ago

      Probably Intel’s fumble when Apple asked them for better performance per watt for the laptop CPUs and whether they wanted the iPhone CPU business back in 2006.

      • chasil 5 days ago

        A more recent motivation might be Apple's switch to in-house ARM for MacOS for similar reasons.

        • dannyw 5 days ago

          Well, they’re already funding so much ARM custom design, it’s not that incremental to tweak and scale for their laptops.

    • toxic72 5 days ago

      Probably the Intel CPUs in Macbooks before Apple made the push for the M1 - circa the Intel quad core era where their laptop chips had major heat issues... ~2012 IIRC?

      • dannyw 5 days ago

        I’m not defending Intel here, but those Intel MacBooks never had appropriate thermal design or headroom for the processor’s operating specs.

        • toasterlovin 5 days ago

          I think the theory is that they had an appropriate thermal design for cpus which were supposed to ship but never did.

LarMachinarum 5 days ago

I wouldn't count on either to save Intel as it still is (i.e with the fab business still attached to the CPU/GPU business). While it's true that having Intel fabs as a second source would be nice for them to alleviate the dependency on TSMC, they are also competing with Intel on the CPU/GPU side.

My guess is, they're gonna let Intel rot a little further while doing their best to pressure for Intel to split off their fab biz (as AMD had done back then), and then invest just in the fab.

Frieren 3 days ago

> Apple, Nvidia and US govt can provide the required funds

When the first tough about investing is to go to big corporations and the goverment instead of going to investors is a telling about how nowadays the economy works.

I love that the Orange guy has opened the door to the nationalization of big tech. I hope that the next president is bolder on this regard. If all these companies depend on monopolies to exists, they should be state owned/controlled.

roboror 5 days ago

Yep, that's exactly what they did with TSMC. Foundries don't just build massive production lines and hope someone will use them, even TSMC.

  • toasterlovin 5 days ago

    Yeah, everyone is focused on TSMC as the company with the secret sauce, but really it’s Apple. Whichever foundry Apple goes with gets the majority of leading edge transistor volume.

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