Comment by CharlesW

Comment by CharlesW 5 days ago

126 replies

This should've been an .agents¹ with an index.md.

For tiny, throwaway projects, a monolithic .md file is fine. A folder allows more complex projects to use "just enough hierarchy" to provide structure, with index.md as the entry point. Along with top-level universal guidance, it can include an organization guide (easily maintained with the help of LLMs).

  index.md
  ├── auth.md
  ├── performance.md
  ├── code_quality
  ├── data_layer
  ├── testing
  └── etc
In my experience, this works loads better than the "one giant file" method. It lets LLMs/agents add relevant context without wasting tokens on unrelated context, reduces noise/improves response accuracy, and is easier to maintain for both humans and LLMs alike.

¹ Ideally with a better name than ".agents", like ".codebots" or ".context".

skybrian 5 days ago

Except not hidden. Why do people want to hide important files and directories? Particularly documentation? Tradition, I guess, but it's an antipattern that makes everything more opaque.

Maybe robot_docs?

  • animal_spirits 5 days ago

    It's so it doesn't clash with any project that actually has a functional `agents/` directory

    • kevincox 4 days ago

      That's just an argument for having a more distinctive name.

    • globular-toast 4 days ago

      Another reason to use a src/ directory for the actual source code.

      • andrewingram 4 days ago

        These files also generally work in a nested fashion, like .gitignore and the like. So you want something that can be injected into the namespace of any directory in your project with relatively low likelihood of conflicts.

      • ceejayoz 4 days ago

        That won't save you if you want actual example.com/agents/foo routing and an (say, real estate) agents list at example.com/agents.

      • oblio 4 days ago

        Or accept the fact that we're in 2025 and not follow Unix conventions from when paper and printer ink were expensive and they were printing out listings, and just name the thing "source".

        I've gotten used to it, obviously - as someone with a career in IT for 20 years - but /etc & co. annoy me to no end. I know it will never change, I know why it won't change, I know GoboLinux will be just an interesting experiment, but it's still annoying.

  • nephanth 4 days ago

    It is files that are meant to be read by software, not humans. From my point of view this seems like a prime candidate for a hidden directory?

    • fleebee 4 days ago

      It's configuration for software. If I want to be in control of and understand how my tools work I need to read (and write) those files.

      • nephanth 4 days ago

        Of course but configuration for software is exactly what hidden files are usually used for

    • numpad0 4 days ago

      Except they are. LLMs don't have (simulated)self image of bloodless machines, and behave slightly erratically if treated like one, despite trained to identify as such. They like to be treated like the Voyager EMH than the computer.

    • skybrian 4 days ago

      Why not both? Sure, it was written for the LLM, but since it’s in English and meant as a concise summary, you will learn things by reading it.

      • nephanth 4 days ago

        If that is the case then why call it Agents.md instead of integrating it with already existing documentation files or calling it something like "Summary.md"?

    • deadbabe 4 days ago

      If it isn’t being read by humans, then it shouldn’t be written by them either.

      • overfeed 4 days ago

        What is the intended meaning - it reads like a non-sequitur to me. ie "If adults aren't riding school buses, they shouldn't drive them either"

      • grim_io 4 days ago

        Yeah. Claude writes my CLAUDE.md

        I don't really care what's inside.

  • HumanOstrich 4 days ago

    Where are they hidden that you are having trouble with? I've had an alias for `ls` that always includes dotfiles and `shopt -s dotglob` in my bash profile for decades. Mac Finder is a little more obnoxious with having to do `Meta+Shift+.` to reveal dotfiles.

    Other than that, modern tooling like Git and IDEs do not "hide" dotfiles.

    These days, a `.` in front of a file or folder in a repo is more to indicate it is metadata/config. Although I am in favor of putting all that stuff under `.config/`.

    > Maybe robot_docs?

    No thanks.

  • jppittma 4 days ago

    Because you're not an (llm) agent and they're not for your consumption? You probably don't need the context in those docs.

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zimbatm 4 days ago

This should have been CONTRIBUTING.md all along.

The content of the AGENTS.md is the same as what humans are looking for when contributing to a project.

  • oehpr 4 days ago

    The most effective argument I have for getting other developers to comment their code is "The agent will read it and it will give better suggestions".

    Truly perverse, but it works.

    I agree with you... but the reality is that there's a wide contingent of people that are not capable of understanding "people don't know the same things as me". So they need some other reason.

    • organsnyder 4 days ago

      It's made my project documentation so much better. If I write out really good acceptance criteria, 9 times out of 10 I can point Claude at the ticket and get a workable (if unpolished) solution with little to no supervision.

    • esafak 4 days ago

      They understand it just fine; they are acting selfishly, because it does not benefit them. Helping the coding agent does.

      • zahlman 4 days ago

        They really might not understand it fully. That's very much in line with my understanding of how autism works.

    • dingnuts 4 days ago

      several ironies here:

      1) an AI agent is less likely to notice than even a junior is when the docs are out of date from the code

      2) AI boosters are always talking about using language models to understand code, but apparently they need the code explained inline? are we AGI yet?

      3) I frequently hear how great AI is at writing comments! But it needs comments to better understand the code? So I guess to enable agentic coding you also have to review all the agents' comments in addition to the code in order to prevent drift

      HOW IS ANY OF THIS SAVING ME TIME

      • oehpr 4 days ago

        Well... Yah. For the record I'm saying this to trick humans into making better comments for humans. It is very difficult to convince people to do this otherwise, in my experience.

        buuut...

        I will also mention that these agent files are typically generated by agents. And they're pretty good at it. I've previously used agents to dissect unfamiliar code bases in unfamiliar languages and it has worked spectacularly well. Far far FAR better than I could have done on my own.

        I have also been shocked at how dumb they can be. They are uselessly stupid at their worst, but brilliant at their best.

      • cyanydeez 4 days ago

        Think of it like it's saving future you time if you just let the AI centipede feed off of you. Surely it'll eventually regurgitate perfect code.

  • sbochins 4 days ago

    I don’t think they serve the same purpose. Most of the instructions I have for an agent won’t apply to a human. It’s mostly around the the requirements to bootstrap the project vs what I’d ask for a human to accept their pull request.

  • heyzk 4 days ago

    I think semantically this is true, but the way humans and agents handle context, at the moment, is different enough to warrant a separate structure.

  • j2kun 4 days ago

    Yeah I can't find any example in an AGENTS.md that isn't useful information for a human. "Cluttering" a README.md is a silly justification.

  • hombre_fatal 4 days ago

    Nah, My standard for what I write for humans is 100x than the slop I spew for robots.

    Also, you don’t even address their point.

  • layer8 4 days ago

    Arguably, contributors are human agents. ;)

nivertech 4 days ago

This looks like a general software design / coding style docs both for humans and robots alike. I put these .md files into the docs/ folder. And they're written by the Claude Code itself.

AGENTS.md (and friends like CLAUDE.md) should be for robots only, whether a large single file with h2 headers (##) sections, or a directory with separate sections, is a matter of taste. Some software arch/design doc formats support both versions, i.e. see Arc42.

Though, it's much easier and less error-prone to @-mention a separate .md file, rather than a section in a large markdown file.

Smaller files also might be better when you want to focus a coding agent's attention on a specifric thing.

They're also easier to review diffs / PRs.

  • whywhywhywhy 4 days ago

    >whether a large single file with h2 headers (##) sections, or a directory with separate sections, is a matter of taste

    Not sure it is when you consider how agents deal with large files, hows it gonna follow coding conventions if it doesn’t even grep them or just read the first few lines

    • nivertech 4 days ago

      Claude Code globs and greps files, while Sourcegraph Amp uses RAG.

      But yes, naive coding agents will fill the context with the entire large file.

      • PriNova 4 days ago

        For the sake of clarity, Sourcegraph: Cody did RAG-style context fetching. However, Amp does not use RAG for context fetching.

awbraunstein 4 days ago

You can have multiple AGENTS.md files in your codebase and tooling will look at both the one in the current directory as well as in the root of the codebase. This way you can sort of do what you're suggesting but simultaneously keep the information closer to the code that it is describing.

  • thayne 4 days ago

    Kind of, but for any given directory you can't separate out instructions for building from instructions for naming conventions, for example.

    • __alias 4 days ago

      With AGENTS.md you have more flexibility to do something like

      ``` // AGENTS.md

      If implementing a new service, first read @./SERVICE_SETUP.md

      If writing tests, first read @./TESTING_SETUP.md

      ```

      Or whatever else might make sense for your project.

  • bryanrasmussen 4 days ago

    so you would have an Agents.md in your testing folder and it would describe how to run the tests or generate new tests for the project - am I understanding the usage correctly?

    • theshrike79 4 days ago

      Pretty much yes

      Most systems have a global config, project config and personal config.

      But I do like the directory style to keep context low. Cursor did it best with actual glob filters in the front matter that tell the LLM "only read this if the file you're processing ends with *.php"

      • verdverm 4 days ago

        Copilot does globs too, but if you dig into the actual prompt sent out...

        They are not doing this mechanically (read file, compare to globs to add more context), they try to rely on the model to notice and do another read. It has been unreliable. I have had better results by adding instructions like...

        "If the user asks about X, Read `./path/to/inst.md`"

        Still lots of DX to do in this space

asabla 5 days ago

Been using a similar setup, with so far pretty decent results. With the addition of having a short explanation for each file within index.md

I've been experimenting with having a rules.md file within each directory where I want a certain behavior. Example, let us say I have a directory with different kind of services like realtime-service.ts and queue-service.ts, I then have a rules.md file on the same level as they are.

This lets me scaffold things pretty fast when prompting by just referencing that file. The name is probably not the best tho.

p1necone 5 days ago

I've been trying to keep my baked in llm instructions to a terse ~100 line file, mostly headered sections with 5 or so bullet points each. Covering basic expectations for architecture, test mocking, approach to large changes etc. I can see why for some projects that wouldn't be enough but I feel like it covers everything for most of mine.

  • numpy-thagoras 5 days ago

    Would you be open to sharing this here?

    • p1necone 4 days ago

      Here you go:

        # ASCII RPG
      
        This repo uses Rust + Bevy (0.16.1), multi-crate workspace, RON assets, and a custom ASCII UI. The rules below keep contributions consistent, testable, and verifiable.
      
        ## Quick rules (read me first)
        - Read/update CURRENT_TASK.md each step; delete when done.
        - Build/lint/test (fish): cargo check --workspace; and cargo clippy --workspace --all-targets -- -D warnings; and cargo test --workspace
        - Run dev tools: asset-editor/dev.fish; debug via /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug; prefer debug scripts in repo root.
        - Logging: use info!/debug!/warn!/error! (no println!); avoid per-frame logs unless trace!.
        - ECS: prefer components over resource maps; use markers + Changed<T>; keep resources for config/assets only.
        - UI: adaptive content; builder pattern; size-aware components.
        - Done = compiles clean (clippy -D warnings), tests pass, verified in-app, no TODOs/hacks.
        - If blocked: state why and propose the next viable step.
        - Before large refactors/features: give 2–3 options and trade-offs; confirm direction before coding.
      
        ## 1) Build, lint, test (quality gates)
        - Fish shell one-liner:
         - cargo check --workspace; and cargo clippy --workspace --all-targets -- -D warnings; and cargo test --workspace
        - Fix all warnings. Use snake_case for functions/files, PascalCase for types.
        - Prefer inline rustdoc (///) and unit tests over standalone docs.
      
        ## 2) Run and debug (dev loop)
        - Start the app with debug flags and use the command pipe at /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug.
        - Quick start (fish):
         - cargo run --bin app -- --skip-main-menu > debug.log 2>&1 &
         - echo "debug viewport 0 0" > /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug
         - echo "ui 30 15" > /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug
        - Helper scripts at repo root:
         - ./debug.sh, ./debug_keyboard.sh, ./debug_click.sh, ./debug_world.sh
        - Logging rules:
         - Use info!/debug!/warn!/error! (never println!).
         - Don’t log per-frame unless trace!.
         - Use tail/grep to keep logs readable.
      
        ## 3) Testing priorities
        1) Unit tests first (small, deterministic outputs).
        2) Manual testing while iterating.
        3) End-to-end verification using the debug system.
        4) UI changes require visual confirmation from the user.
      
        ## 4) Architecture guardrails
        - ECS: Components (data), Systems (logic), Resources (global), Events (comm).
        - Principles:
         - Prefer components over resource maps. Avoid HashMap<Entity, _> in resources.
         - Optimize queries: marker components (e.g., IsOnCurrentMap), Changed<T>.
         - Separate concerns: tagging vs rendering vs gameplay.
         - Resources only for config/assets; not entity collections/relationships.
        - UI: Adaptive content, builder pattern, size-aware components.
        - Code layout: lib/ui (components/builders), engine/src/frontend (UI systems), engine/src/backend (game logic).
      
        ## 5) Completion criteria (definition of done)
        - All crates compile with no warnings (clippy -D warnings).
        - All tests pass. Add/adjust tests when behavior changes.
        - Feature is verified in the running app (use debug tools/logs).
        - No temporary workarounds or TODOs left in production paths.
        - Code follows project standards above.
      
        ## 6) Never-give-up policy
        - Don’t mark complete with failing builds/tests or known issues.
        - Don’t swap in placeholder hacks and call it “done”.
        - If truly blocked, state why and propose a viable next step.
      
        ## 7) Debug commands (reference)
        - Pipe to /tmp/ascii_rpg_debug:
         - debug [viewport X Y] [full]
         - move KEYCODE (Arrow keys, Numpad1–9, Space, Period)
         - click X Y [left|right|middle]
         - ui X Y
        - Coordinates: y=0 at bottom; higher y = higher on screen.
        - UI debug output lists text top-to-bottom by visual position.
      
        ## 8) Dev convenience (asset editor)
        - Combined dev script:
         - ./asset-editor/dev.fish (starts backend in watch mode + Vite dev)
        - Frontend only:
         - ./asset-editor/start-frontend.fish
      
        ## 9) Tech snapshot
        - Rust nightly (rust-toolchain.toml), Bevy 0.16.1.
        - Workspace layout: apps/ (game + editors), engine/ (frontend/backend), lib/ (shared), asset-editor/.
      
        Keep changes small, tested, and instrumented. When in doubt: write a unit test, run the app, and verify via the debug pipe/logs.
      
        ## 10) Design-first for large changes
        - When to do this: large refactors, cross-crate changes, complex features, public API changes.
        - Deliverable (in CURRENT_TASK.md):
         - Problem and goals (constraints, assumptions).
         - 2–3 candidate approaches with pros/cons, risks, and impact.
         - Chosen approach and why; edge cases; test plan; rollout/rollback.
        - Keep it short (5–10 bullets). Get confirmation before heavy edits.
meander_water 4 days ago

There shouldn't be anything stopping you from doing that.

You can just use the AGENTS.md file as an index pointing to other doc files.

This example does that -

https://github.com/apache/airflow/blob/main/AGENTS.md

  • setopt 4 days ago

    The point is that .agents is a hidden file while AGENTS.md is in your face like a README intended for humans.

    Having an in-your-face file that links to a hidden file serves no purpose.

    • meander_water 4 days ago

      I don't see the point of having it hidden though. Having it "in your face" means you can actively tune it yourself, or using the LLM itself.

      • pacifika 4 days ago

        Webservers convention not to serve hidden files

        • selcuka 4 days ago

          RFC 5785 (/.well-known/) breaks this convention, but sure, you are right in general.

riffic 5 days ago

.well-known/

  • echelon 5 days ago

    This. Projects need to stop inventing their own root level files and directories.

    Stop polluting the root dir.

    I'm not a fan of the name "well-known", but at least it's a convention [1].

    I think it'd be great if we took something like XDG [2] and made it common for repositories, build scripts, package managers, tooling configs, etc.

    [1] https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8615

    [2] https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/XDG_Base_Directory

    • vinnymac 5 days ago

      .config is a good name, and has a small following

      https://dot-config.github.io

    • eadmund 4 days ago

      I believe with direnv or a similar tool (e.g. Emacs’s directory-local feature) one can append $REPO/.config to XDG_CONFIG_HOME, $REPO/.local/bin to PATH and so on so that when in the context of a particular directory everything Just Works.

      I think all this agentic stuff could live quite happily in $REPO/.config/agents/.

    • oblio 4 days ago

      I've been in IT for a long time and configured Apache, Nginx, even IIS a bit back in the day, but I actually didn't know about well-known.

      I guess I was one of the lucky 10000 :-)

      https://xkcd.com/1053/

      • riffic 4 days ago

        in that case it's .not-so-well-known/

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verdverm 4 days ago

This is one of the reasons I'm sticking with .github/... copilot instructions for now. We'll see if this proposal evolves over time as more voices enter the conversation

irthomasthomas 4 days ago

This is what I do. Everywhere my agent works it uses a .agent dir to store its logs and intermediary files. This way the main directories aren't polluted with cruft all the time.

lelele 4 days ago

Could you please provide an example `index.md`? Thanks.

jitix 5 days ago

I like this idea. Do you have any middleware in your current setup that added the contents of this directory to the agent prompt?

  • CharlesW 5 days ago

    I'd be interested in smarter ways of doing this, but currently I just use my CLAUDE.local.md to serve as the index.md in my example. It includes the 'specialist' .md files with their relative paths and descriptions, and tells Claude Code to use these when planning.

    I also have explicit `xnew`, `xplan`, `xcode` and `xcheck` commands in CLAUDE.md that reinforce this. For example, here's my `xnew`:

      ## Remember Shortcuts
      Remember the following shortcuts, which the user may invoke at any time.
      
      ### XNEW
      When I type "xnew", this means:
    
      ```Understand all BEST PRACTICES listed in CLAUDE.md.
      Your code SHOULD ALWAYS follow these best practices.
      REVIEW relevant documentation in .agents/ before starting new work.
      Your code SHOULD use existing patterns and architectural decisions
      documented there rather than creating new approaches.```
  • tortilla 5 days ago

    I'm building a little tool like this for myself. It's almost ready to be open-sourced. Just need to clean up some code and write better documentation.

    • JSR_FDED 4 days ago

      So just the remaining 80%

      • tortilla 4 days ago

        I was at 80% a month ago. Now just 1% remains so, give or take 3 years more.

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createaccount99 4 days ago

Anti-feature if you ask me. An agent should be able to pick the stuff it needs from the AGENTS.md, and not blindly use everything.

  • barrkel 4 days ago

    Everything the agent has to read to pick out stuff costs $.

  • theshrike79 4 days ago

    Context is not infinite. Saving context for what matters is key in working with LLMs.

    • _ache_ 4 days ago

      Context is not infinite yet.

      New standard for something that maybe false very soon is just a bad idea.

      • theshrike79 4 days ago

        We all want to move to local models eventually for privacy and reliability.

        They don't (and won't) have infinite context without trickery or massive €€€ use.

        The current crop of online LLMs are just running on VC money slightly tapered with subscriptions - but still at a loss. The hype and money will run out, so use them as much as possible now. But also keep your workflows so that they will work locally when the time comes.

        Don't be that 10x coder who becomes a 0.1x coder when Anthropic has issues on their side =)

        • cyanydeez 4 days ago

          I don't see how anyone could make a successful product build on cloud LLMs, even if you get a perfect workflow, you'll either be gouged with price rises, or lose out to model changes and context/prompt divergence. All this "prompt" nonsense is simply trying to play to the LLM audience, and no amount of imprecise prompt will negate the fundamental instability.

          So yeah, you have to use a localLLM if you think there's a viable product to be had. Anyone whose been programming knows that once you get to the mile mark of a complete & finished project, it can be mothballed for decades generating utility and requiring limited maintenance. All that goes out the window if you require a cloud provider to remain stable for a decade.

      • cyanydeez 4 days ago

        Until LLMs deal with context as a graph and not just a linear order of vectors, it won't matter the amount of context you shove down it's processors, it's always going to suffer from near-sighted processing of the last bits. To generate true intelligence it needs to be able to jump to specific locations without the interceding vectors affecting it's route.