sorcerer-mar 3 days ago

[flagged]

  • tomhow 2 days ago

    > For other readers: greenie_beans does not understand what LVT is, how it works

    Personal attacks and shaming like this are unacceptable and it set off a hellish flamewar that you perpetuated. Please don't do this again. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

    We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44556051 and marked it off topic.

  • greenie_beans 3 days ago

    [flagged]

    • AnimalMuppet 3 days ago

      You are not a three month old account. You should know that personal attacks are against the site rules. You are way over the line here.

      • greenie_beans 3 days ago

        i'm very well aware. i'm just responding to what i was given. condescend to me without contending with my ideas then i'll roast. "good hackers break rules" - paul graham, probably

asdf6969 3 days ago

What percentage of people live in a rental? All rentals were at some point bought by investors. Unless they’re a much smaller volume of total sales (held longer?) then it seems ok even though the number sounds alarming

stephenhandley 3 days ago

Outlaw corporations from owning single family homes.

  • mattmcknight 3 days ago

    "Mom-and-pop investors, or those who own between 1 and 5 homes, account for 85% of all investor-owned residential properties, while those with between 6 and 10 properties account for another 5%

    Institutional investors that own 1,000 or more homes account for only about 2.2% of all investor-owned homes, the firm said.

    And that number could get smaller, amid signs that large institutional investors are scaling back home purchases.

    Out of a group of eight of the biggest companies that own and lease single-family houses, including Invitation Homes and American Homes 4 Rent, six sold more homes in the second quarter than they bought, according to data from Parcl Labs."

  • tptacek 3 days ago

    Exactly why would single family homes receive this odd policy preference? Is the only reason that you couldn't do it at all with multifamily housing (the vast, overwhelming majority of which aren't co-ops, themselves corporations but not the kind you mean)? In which case all you're really doing here is flailing?

  • kasey_junk 3 days ago

    Except the builders who build them right? And the banks that lend against them? And the quasi governmental corporations who buy those loans?

    If you want to make it so no homes get built at all your proposal seems like a good starting point.

    • tptacek 3 days ago

      Making it so no homes get built is a surprisingly common policy preference.

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codingwagie 3 days ago

Financial engineering is why people are poor. They are literally competing for goods and services with investment firms.

  • aspenmayer 3 days ago

    Meritocracy looks a bit different when individuals standing alone are expected to go toe to toe with multi-industry corporate conglomerates and their franchisees.

    • 93po 3 days ago

      and when society is structured so that the people/orgs with lots of resources have unfair advantage over those who don't (e.g. monopoly powers)

tedk-42 3 days ago

The rich are eating the poor and the middle class are fighting for the scraps.

bryanlarsen 3 days ago

Don't more than 27% of Americans rent rather than own the housing they live in? It appears 36% rent. Doesn't this mean that the share of owner-occupied housing is going down, not up as the headline implies and readers are assuming?

  • kasey_junk 3 days ago

    You can’t extrapolate anything about owner occupancy rate broadly from this stat because it’s about who _bought_ in a short period.

    If 28% of sellers that quarter were investors then the owner occupancy rate went up.

    Now I suspect that’s not the case but if you look at home ownership rates for non-investors they stay in a very tight couple of % points in the mid 60s and they track interest rates. This has been true since the US started making home ownership a governmental priority post ww2.

    Prior to that it was in the 40s for as far back as I could find any data.

    • bryanlarsen 3 days ago

      I would expect investors to sell houses quicker than owner occupiers. Yes, some investors hold for a while, but there are enough that flip homes within months that I expect their average to be fairly low.

  • jfengel 3 days ago

    I can't vouch for what readers are assuming, but the headline is intended to say that more people are renting because more homes are going to institutions who don't occupy them.

    The implication is that this drives up the price for renters, because the demand side includes not just money from people seeking a place to live, but much larger amounts of money from other markets.

    • appreciatorBus 3 days ago

      If those homes had been purchased by an owner occupiers, then there would be that many fewer homes for rent, causing rent to go up.

      The implication of these article is always that investors are somehow unfairly competing against homeowners. But there is only one fixed pool of people competing for housing - something that reduces supply for buyers is increasing it for tenants and vice versa.

      • dmbche 3 days ago

        I don't know how it works, but if a renter becomes an owner (i e. A home is purchased by and owner occupier) there is one less renter and one less house available, remaining in balance and prices shouldn't move?

    • bryanlarsen 3 days ago

      If 27% of new homes are purchased by investors and 36% of old homes are owned by investors, then math says that this lowers the percentage of homes owned by investors. (27% * x + 36% * y) / (x + y) -> a number between 27 and 36.

kaycebasques 3 days ago

It's only a 5-year high. Do they not have data before 2020? I need data over a much longer timeframe than 5 years to determine how interesting the 27% number is.

qcic 3 days ago

27% of homes sold, not 27% of US homes. The title is completely misleading.

Not a shocker, given high interest rates usually drive down prices, and investors are not getting mortgages. Great investment to keep value, not so much for growth.

  • cowsandmilk 3 days ago

    > investors are not getting mortgages

    I don’t know of any real estate investor who doesn’t use mortgages. The norm is interest-only mortgages and not paying down principal at all.

  • howinator 3 days ago

    The phrasing was clear to me on first read. I don’t think anyone would assume 27% of all homes are for sale in one 3 month period since that would imply every home is sold, on average, once per year.

  • rightbyte 3 days ago

    Zillow and the likes flipping homes should raise the number too?

    But anyway, the trend of corparations buying houses is really bad.

    • breckenedge 3 days ago

      The article says that institutional investing (1000+ homes) is decreasing.

      > Institutional investors that own 1,000 or more homes account for only about 2.2% of all investor-owned homes, the firm said.

      > And that number could get smaller, amid signs that large institutional investors are scaling back home purchases.

    • lotsofpulp 3 days ago

      Zillow lost a lot of money trying to flip houses a few years ago and stopped.

      • rightbyte 3 days ago

        Ok ye well the idea was silly and probably quite easy to game.

        • [removed] 3 days ago
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    • WalterBright 3 days ago

      [flagged]

      • yupitsme123 3 days ago

        Strangely, there's a ton of vacant commercial real estate in my neighborhood that the corporate landlords don't seem to be in any rush to rent out.

      • xenihn 3 days ago

        Not true.

        Do a google search for "rent-fixing algorithms".

        If you own enough homes in a rental market, you can determine the market rate. An empty house has value simply by depleting local housing stock, since it is giving you greater leverage to drive market rate up.

        Of course its less value than actually having it rented, but its still value. Tax code will also allow for softening the loss.

        • WalterBright 3 days ago

          > If you own enough homes in a rental market, you can determine the market rate.

          Only if the government has managed to prevent new construction.

          Consider this: You aim to buy all 100 units, and then you can charge whatever rent you like, right? What happens is sellers discover you are doing this, and then raise their asking prices through the roof. The result is it costs you so much to get that monopoly that you cannot hope to be able to rent at a profit. Especially if it is possible to create new units for the purpose of selling at a high price to you. And it is possible, unless the government prevents new construction.

          You cannot attain a monopoly unless there are major barriers to entry. In this case, it is government zoning that prevents new construction. In California, anyone can sue to block any new housing construction, bringing the construction market to a standstill and hence the highest home prices in the nation.

      • lazide 3 days ago

        Depends on your definition of value. There are many investments structured in a way that mere ownership, as long as comps go up in the local market, will cause increases in value.

        Don’t look down.

        It’s also why the current admin seems really intent on bullying Powell into decreasing the fed rate - Trump and many of his friends are very exposed to real estate.

      • MOARDONGZPLZ 3 days ago

        Of course it does. Many houses remain empty because PE firms buy them and hold out for rents locals cannot afford.

        • WalterBright 3 days ago

          Rent control plays a role in that.

          If rents are not allowed to rise, the landlord risks locking in a low rent for the indeterminate future. It's a better play to leave it vacant until the rents rise.

          Rent control is simply a disaster.