Comment by vizzah
The regions are largely already occupied. Are you aware of how many refugees have already left for Ukraine? They are not coming back to those territories unless they are liberated. A lot of pro-Russian refugees left for Russia. Any non-conscripts left for Europe.
I know what my relatives in Ukraine want -- they want to stop the war without it progressing further and without the conscription of 18 year olds. Zelenskiy should have held a referendum on Crimea years ago -- he promised it before getting elected. They purposely want to avoid this because most Ukrainians would vote to cede Crimea to end the war. This could have been used as a strong negotiating chip with Russia. Ukraine could have negotiated the return of some of the already occupied territories in exchange for accepting the loss of Crimea. But it's not happening! And nobody is allowed to talk about this -- not even hint at it! I ask my numerous Ukrainian contacts privately, and they all agree: cede Crimea, at least to end the war.
It is quite obvious that Ukraine cannot win a war of attrition, and the longer this drags on, the more devastated Ukraine will be when the war ends. The amount of damage to the economy, infrastructure, agriculture, housing, etc., is already beyond recovery. Have you seen how much the World Bank expects Ukraine will need to rebuild? More than half a trillion USD -- that's today's figure.
So yeah, you can continue the demagoguery about "who gave you the right" or "what if, what then" -- but Ukraine needs concrete steps and the acceptance that it will have to lose something in order to secure its further independence and, hopefully, future prosperity.
PS: But if you think losing millions of lives, losing bright minds who don't want to have to do anything with this war, is more important than ceding some pro-russian oblasts - go on the frontlines and fight for this flawed ideology.
PPS: I checked your posting history on HN and you seem to have joined 3 months ago to support Ukrainian-government's official narrative. I would have saved my time responding to you, should I checked it earlier.
The regions are already largely occupied by —- that is not true. Zaporizhzha and Kherson cities where most population lives are under Ukrainian control. There is a significant population in Kramatorsk-Slavyansk.
Second, Russia demands ceding all of Zaporizhzha, Kherson and Donetsk region to Russian control. Ukraine already agreed to unconditional ceasefire, Russia wants 3 regions with millions of people.
Any non-conscripts left to Europe - that is not true, there are many kids, elderly and women in Ukraine, including the South and the East.
Referendum for status of Crimea was never on Zelensky ballot. « – Крим повернеться лише тоді, коли у Росії зміниться влада. Іншого виходу у мене немає, – наголосив Зеленський.» nothing about ceding anything.
Nor it was sole Russian demand at any point. So that’s a nice rhetorical device here, but ceding or not ceding Crimea has no relation to the war’s end
About whether Ukraine can or cannot win the war, I don’t have a magical crystal ball and neither do you. Soviet Union lost to Finland, Russia to Chechen insurgents, the disparity was much bigger.
In reality, Ukraine gave away Crimea in 2014 “to prevent war”, it worked out nicely, yeah?
Another point, Kherson and Zaporizhzha consistently, even before 2022, voted for pro-EU parties, in two parliamentary and two presidential elections.
What is also interesting, is that in your messages there was not a single mention of Russia’s responsibility for the war. It is treated like some sort of a tornado. Zelensky this, Zelensky that. Doesn’t Russia have some sort of agency, no? Isn’t it a bit conspicuous for a Ukrainian, no?
About losing something to gain something, Ukraine already lost a lot in 2014-2015, yet that did not lead to any gains. There is no equilibrium here.
Pps: I think your time is not of the utmost value.