Comment by PaulDavisThe1st

Comment by PaulDavisThe1st 2 days ago

6 replies

This "let them do it, and try to rectify wrongs later" model is why we end up with innocent gay hairdressers in CECOT.

There are clearly established procedures for US law enforcement (which includes ICE). If they are not following those procedures, then any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity".

Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes.

The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.

timr 2 days ago

> Do you have a legal right to see the documents that MUST be presented to the person they are seeking to detain? Probably not. Do you have a moral duty to insist the US law enforcement HAS that document before leaving the situation? Many people would say yes.

Well, you can theorize a "moral duty" to do whatever you want, but that won't stop you from getting actually arrested, under real laws. But you do you.

The thing about being a martyr for your beliefs is that it comes with a downside. This article is trying to stir up controversy that someone doing something illegal (i.e. obstruction) was arrested for a valid reason.

  • PaulDavisThe1st 2 days ago

    Getting arrested for complaining about illegal law enforcement action that is taking place is the sort of downside that history will write as heroic.

anon291 2 days ago

> any citizen has the right to raise this as an issue, politician or not. They don't get to just haul people away because you have no "official capacity".

Yes, you do have a right to raise this as an issue... but not anywhere anyway. In all this discussion about the rule of law, we forget that the rule of the law also dictates how citizen redresses are to be handled... in a court of law, using established procedures.

> The 2nd amendment crowd are strong on the idea of guns as a means of resisting tyranny. Other people feel similarly about standing up to law enforcement being done illegally.

False equivocation... The 2nd amendment crowd has an amendment to our constitution allowing them to do what they do: own weapons. There is no amendment that lets you willy-nilly march into a court and demand papers. If you want that, I would suggest writing your legislator to propose such an amendment.

  • PaulDavisThe1st 2 days ago

    1. I suggest you check the meaning of equivocation. I think you meant equivalence.

    2. I did not equate the two, other than as a means of resisting tyranny. You have no legal right (other than in NH) to seek to overthrow the government, 2nd amendment or otherwise.

    • NemoNobody 2 days ago

      What does legal have to do with anything?

      If someone is trying to overthrow the government - they will be Patriots if they win.

      Legal doesn't matter at all if someone is at that point

  • bokoharambe 2 days ago

    It's hilarious to see people talking about rule of law when the President of the United States himself is not bound by it. The President! You can see it very clearly why interwar liberalism failed. As Schmitt points out, they were too caught up in constitutional handwringing to comprehend that they had entered a state of exception, and that normal laws and procedures were not to be followed.