Comment by viraptor

Comment by viraptor 20 hours ago

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> It's something you can pick in a few minutes

You can start in a few minutes, sure. (Also you can start using gdb in minutes) But GP is talking about the ceiling. Do you know which models work better for what kind of task? Do you know what format is better for extra files? Do you know when it's beneficial to restart / compress context? Are you using single prompts or multi stage planning trees? How are you managing project-specific expectations? What type of testing gives better results in guiding the model? What kind of issues are more common for which languages?

Correct prompting these days what makes a difference in tasks like SWE-verified.

sothatsit 20 hours ago

I feel like there is also a very high ceiling to how much scaffolding you can produce for the agents to get them to work better. This includes custom prompts, custom CLAUDE.md files, other documentation files for Claude to read, and especially how well and quickly your linting and tests can run, and how much functionality they cover. That's not to mention MCP and getting Claude to talk to your database or open your website using Playwright, which I have not even tried yet.

For example, I have a custom planning prompt that I will give a paragraph or two of information to, and then it will produce a specification document from that by searching the web and reading the code and documentation. And then I will review that specification document before passing it back to Claude Code to implement the change.

This works because it is a lot easier to review a specification document than it is to review the final code changes. So, if I understand it and guide it towards how I would want the feature to be implemented at the specification stage, that sets me up to have a much easier time reviewing the final result as well. Because it will more closely match my own mental model of the codebase and how things should be implemented.

And it feels like that is barely scratching the surface of setting up the coding environment for Claude Code to work in.

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  • freehorse 16 hours ago

    And where all this skill will go when newer models after one year use different tools and require different scaffolding?

    The problem with overinvesting in a brand new, developping field is that you get skills that are soon to be redundant. You can hope that the skills are gonna transfer to what will be needed after, but I am not sure if that will be the case here. There was a lot of talk about prompting techniques ("prompt engineering") last year, and now most of these are redundant and I really don't think I have learnt something that is useful enough for the new models, nor have I actually understood sth. These are all tricks and tips level, shallow stuff.

    I think these skills are just like learning how to use some tools in an ide. They increase productivity, it's great but if you have to switch ide they may not actually help you with the new things you have to learn in the new environment. Moreover, these are just skills in how to use some tools; they allow you to do things, but we cannot compare learning how to use tools vs actually learning and understanding the structure of a program. The former is obviously a shallow form of knowledge/skill, easily replaceable, easily redundant and probably not transferable (in the current context). I would rather invest more time in the latter and actually get somewhere.

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    • sothatsit 13 hours ago

      A lot of the changes to get agents to work well is just good practice anyway. That's what is nice about getting these agents to work well - often, it just involves improving your dev tooling and documentation, which can help real human developers as well. I don't think this is going to become irrelevant any time soon.

      The things that will change may be prompts or MCP setups or more specific optimisations like subagents. Those may require more consideration of how much you want to invest in setting them up. But the majority of setup you do for Claude Code is not only useful to Claude Code. It is useful to human developers and other agent systems as well.

      > There was a lot of talk about prompting techniques ("prompt engineering") last year and now most of these are redundant.

      Not true, prompting techniques still matter a lot to a lot of applications. It's just less flashy now. In fact, prompting techniques matter a ton for optimising Claude Code and creating commands like the planning prompt I created. It matters a lot when you are trying to optimise for costs and use cheaper models.

      > I think these skills are just like learning how to use some tools in an ide. > if you have to switch ide they may not actually help you

      A lot of the skills you learn in one IDE do transfer to new IDEs. I started using Eclipse and that was a steep learning curve. But later I switched to IntelliJ IDEA and all I had to re-learn were key-bindings and some other minor differences. The core functionality is the same.

      Similarly, a lot of these "agent frameworks" like Claude Code are very similar in functionality, and switching between them as the landscape shifts is probably not as large of a cost as you think it is. Often it is just a matter of changing a model parameter or changing the command that you pass your prompt to.

      Of course it is a tradeoff, and that tradeoff probably changes a lot depending upon what type of work you do, your level of experience, how old your codebases are, how big your codebases are, the size of your team, etc... it's not a slam dunk that it is definitely worthwhile, but it is at least interesting.

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  • viraptor 20 hours ago

    > then it will produce a specification document from that

    I like a similar workflow where I iterate on the spec, then convert that into a plan, then feed that step by step to the agent, forcing full feature testing after each one.

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  • bcrosby95 19 hours ago

    When you say specification, what, specifically, does that mean? Do you have an example?

    I've actually been playing around with languages that separate implementation from specification under the theory that it will be better for this sort of stuff, but that leaves an extremely limited number of options (C, C++, Ada... not sure what else).

    I've been using C and the various LLMs I've tried seem to have issues with the lack of memory safety there.

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    • sothatsit 19 hours ago

      A "specification" as in a text document outlining all the changes to make.

      For example, it might include: Overview, Database Design (Migration, Schema Updates), Backend Implementation (Model Updates, API updates), Frontend Implementation (Page Updates, Component Design), Implementation Order, Testing Considerations, Security Considerations, Performance Considerations.

      It sounds like a lot when I type it out, but it is pretty quick to read through and edit.

      The specification document is generated by a planning prompt that tells Claude to analyse the feature description (the couple paragraphs I wrote), research the repository context, research best practices, present a plan, gather specific requirements, perform quality control, and finally generate the planning document.

      I'm not sure if this is the best process, but it seems to work pretty well.

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    • viraptor 19 hours ago

      Like a spec you'd hand to a contractor. List of requirements, some business context, etc. Not a formal algorithm spec.

      My basic initial prompt for that is: "we're creating a markdown specification for (...). I'll start with basic description and at each step you should refine the spec to include the new information and note what information is missing or could use refinement."

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