Comment by Tadpole9181

Comment by Tadpole9181 6 months ago

In one breath: scientific vigor required for your opposition.

In the next breath: "anyone who disagrees with me is a loser."

> Those that make the claims that LLM's are capable of suffering, that they show signs of consciousness need to deliver. If they can't, it is reasonable to assume they are full of shit.

Replace LLM with any marginalized group. Black people, Jews, etc. I can easily just use this to excuse any heinous crime I want - because you cannot prove that you aren't a philosophical zombie to me.

Defaulting to cruelty in the face of unfalsifiablility is absurd.

suddenlybananas 6 months ago

>Replace LLM with any marginalized group. Black people, Jews, etc. I can easily just use this to excuse any heinous crime I want - because you cannot prove that you aren't a philosophical zombie to me.

This is so flatly ridiculous of an analogy that it becomes racist itself. Maybe the bread I eat is conscious and feels pain (the ancient Manichaens thought so!). Are you know going to refrain from eating bread in case it causes suffering? You can't prove bread doesn't feel pain, you might be "defaulting to cruelty"!

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Tadpole9181 6 months ago

I'm sure you feel quite clever, but this isn't an actual argument, it's blatant reductio ad absurdum.
Does bread talk? Can it pass the turing test? Can it produce code and fill out Excel sheets and make art and write novel stories and poetry?
People boiled lobsters and crabs alive because "they can't feel pain" using the GP's argument. They did - not hypothetically, did - use it to justify slavery. They still use it to cut the fins off of sharks and throw their useless bodies back on the water.
You wouldn't say something so unconsciable about a cat or a dog or a damn Duck. Yet here we are.

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- suddenlybananas 6 months ago
  
  >Does bread talk? Can it pass the turing test? Can it produce code and fill out Excel sheets and make art and write novel stories and poetry?
  None of the animals you described can do any of those things and yet we attribute them suffering. A simulacra of language is not the prerequisite for being a conscious, feeling thing.
  
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