Comment by ajsnigrutin

Comment by ajsnigrutin a day ago

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The problem with lora (and APRS over satellite... well, even ground APRS) is, that the bandwidth is very limited and usually only for "one person at a time", so while meshtastic/meshcore might be fine for tens of stations and a few users chatting, once those numbers get higher, the routing/signalization uses up most of the bandwidth, and many people sending messages at the same time makes the whole system very unreliable.

APRS is a bit better, because it requires ham licences and (usually) a bit more expensive equipment, but with "SmartBeaconing" and just a few hams, you get collisions (multiple people transmitting at the same time, effectively jamming eachother).

Reddit is usually full of preppers and other idiots buying these cheap chinese radios, usually without any knowledge and licences (that are needed to use them), and in turn they know nothing about actual use of those devices.... simplex range in urban environment is measured in hundreds of meters or maybe one or two large buildings between radioss, and repeaters will be in use by actual emergency servics and not really usable for any kind of "private use".

tldr: get a few books, a pack of cards, wait it out, not so long ago being unreachable away from home was the norm, and we managed.

akvadrako a day ago

On the other hand, getting a license is pretty easy. If you have a US address you can take 2 ten minute exams online for $10 to get General class; that's usable when traveling globally. It's a fixed pool of about 300 questions, so a half day of studying should be enough.

With the license, there are ham repeaters for FM and DMR. My cheap Chinese radio can reach the repeater 15km away.

It also supports APRS, but only for sending beacons. I can't really test it as there aren't repeaters around.

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nunobrito a day ago

Please stop with the FUD.

Portugal was for 24 hours without electricity. LoRa networks were jammed and non-operational because the bandwidth is limited. APRS kept working.

It is far better to have a walkie-talkie that you can use as PMR on the 446 range and use for satellite text messages than an expensive toy that very few use.

And as you also know: You do NOT require a radio license when operating under emergency situations, which is the context on this case.

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  • ajsnigrutin a day ago

    > And as you also know: You do NOT require a radio license when operating under emergency situations, which is the context on this case.

    In portugal? Yes, you need one. Probably in every other EU country too

    In USA too.

    I have no idea where people got the myth of not needing a licence in emergencies, probably due to not reading the actual rules.

    Also, you cannot use the same device for PMR and ham radio bands, the PMR device needs to be certified for PMR use, that means that it can only transmit on pmr frequencies and nowhere else. Other devices (eg. ham radio) cannot be used on PMR frequencies.

    It's not FUD, it's regulation which exists for good reason, because in cases of actual emergencies, trained ham operators can assist actual emergency services with communication, and that's impossible if every idiot with a baofeng jams the channels.

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    • elevation a day ago

      > I have no idea where people got the myth of not needing a licence in emergencies, probably due to not reading the actual rules.

      Parent is referring to the “Safety of life and protection of property” rule [0].

      [O]: https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-47/chapter-I/subchapter-D...

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      • misteriji2 19 hours ago

        > No provision of these rules prevents the use by an amateur station of any means of radiocommunication at its disposal to provide essential communication needs in connection with the immediate safety of human life and immediate protection of property when normal communication systems are not available.

        This rules applies to:

        > the use by an amateur station

        Not every billy and bobby with a baofeng are an amateur station.

        Luckily, at the beginning of part 97 there are definitions of such words (you have to open the full document, not just this article)

        > Amateur station. A station in an amateur radio service consisting of the apparatus necessary for carrying on radiocommunications.

        So, for something to be an "amateur station", you need an "apparatus" (some kind of radio transmitter) and it has to be a part of "amateur radio service". That too is defined in the same document:

        > Amateur radio services. The amateur service, the amateur-satellite service and the radio amateur civil emergency service.

        It's not RACES (that's defined below), not satellite, so let's see what "amateur service is", again, definition in the same document

        > Amateur service. A radiocommunication service for the purpose of self-training, intercommunication and technical investigations carried out by amateurs, that is, duly authorized persons interested in radio technique solely with a personal aim and without pecuniary interest.

        So, for that rule to apply, you need a device (an apparatus), that has to be used for self-training etc (read above), for noncommercial, personal aim by a licenced ("duly authorized") person. Only then can you break other rules (eg power limits) in situations described in rule 403 you linked above.

        Without a licence, a radio is just a radio, eg. a business band radio (like many motorolas are), and nothing in the part 97 (regulating amateur radio) applies to the user of that radio. Only when a licenced ham uses that (or any other radio, or even a homemade transmitter), in a specific way (described above) that "just-a-radio" becomes an amateur station.

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    • nunobrito a day ago

      Again with FUD.

      In Portugal you are legally permitted to use channel 9 (27.065 MHz) in addition to the PMR channels. The hard line has always been on public safety bands. From a long time cooperation with the authorities (especially around the Azores) there was always an informal permission for that kind of usage across boats and islands because communication is difficult there.

      Last but not least: taking the radio license exam is NOT a drama. Anyone can apply and get the radio license when they are serious into this topic.

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      • ajsnigrutin a day ago

        What fud?

        Channel 9 is a CB channel, and neither quanshengs nor baofengs work on those frequencies at all, but you need a certified/type-accepted CB radio to use on that frequency.

        Same with PMR, you need a PMR radio to use on pmr frequencies.

        It's not FUD, it's just hardware limits and regulation.

        Yes, 12yo kids can get an amateur radio licence, it's easy, but you still need a licence to transmit on ham bands, and you still cannot legally use a baofeng (except the few pmr models) or a quansheng on PMR frequencies, those radios don't transmit on cb freqencies at all, and there are no legal "you don't need a licence in an emergency" exceptions.

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