Comment by hermitcrab a day ago
Alternatively, we could treat fellow sentient beings with a bit of empathy and respect and not cram thousands of them into an artificial environment. Then we wouldn't have to cram them full of antibiotics, cut their beaks off and make them wear 'cute' glasses.
We don't live in a perfect world, and we never will. But that isn't a good excuse not to try to do better.
It’s not a refutation though. Dumb doesn’t seem to preclude suffering in humans; I’d assume chickens can still have a bad time.
Don't buy eggs/chickens from companies that treat them like that. Buy from local farms or eggs labeled as pasture raised while grocery shopping. You're not supporting the awful conditions and also getting eggs that have more nutrition content/egg.
Maybe there's a negative I'm not aware of, but I personally look for pasture raised eggs that are certified by this organization: https://certifiedhumane.org/
I can often find them for only $2 more a dozen than the cheapest option.
This is an interesting comment! There are a few implications tucked together here that made me think.
Forgive me if I'm missing your intent(s) but the way I'm reading your comment it seems to be implying "the logical conclusion of that line of thinking is a worse situation so the logic is wrong or should be ignored".
Which implies that not being extinct is the most important thing even if life is completely suffering.
(It also implies a false dichotomy where the only two options are the horrible suffering of modern factory farming or extinction, with no options in between.)
I have an earnest question about your opinion, without casting any judgement or gotchas about any real world complicated situations:
In a hypothetical world where horrible factory farming is the only possible life for these chickens (the ONLY alternative is extinction) do you think it is worse to keep the system going than letting them go extinct? I think that's the intent in your comment and, if so, would you mind sharing a bit more about why you think that?
Yes, I think the subjective value of life for chickens in a factory farm is negative, so the most ethical outcome would be to stop breeding them, at which point they would presumably go extinct.
I’m not a vegan myself, but I have several vegans in my life, and I believe this is a common viewpoint in the vegan community.
Chickens predate factory farming. Why would they stop existing without factory farming?
I don't think so. You could simply mandate more space per chicken, access to natural light and other improvements. It would make chicken and eggs more expensive. But I am ok with that.
There is a whole continuum between massive intensive factory farming and boutique organic farms.
I love humanely and ethically raised chickens, but let's not pretend they aren't dumb as rocks. The happiest chickens in the world with all the pasture and food in the world will still fight each other for no other reason than "because". Admittedly a lot less but still happens