Comment by Simon_O_Rourke 3 days ago
Maybe it's my rampant misanthrope leanings, but even in more trivial things like choosing automated kiosks other staffed in CVS, I'm just more comfortable not having to make small talk with a person, worry if they're having a good day or not etc.
I'd happily pay 20 percent more to Waymo for that personless experience too.
For me the appeal of self checkout is that everyone gets in the same line and then fans out to the next free checkout machine. I don't have to wonder if I chose wrong when I see all the other lines moving faster. Some places with human cashiers (such as Marshall's) do this, and it's great.
I'm not an introvert by any means, but I still choose whichever system is likely to work better.
At the supermarket, if I'm doing my monthly giant shopping trip and filling the car with non-perishables, I go through the attended checkout. Those people are quick and accurate, and there are two of them -- a checker and a bagger.
But if I only have one or two items, there's no line at the self-checkout, and I just throw the stuff into my backpack.
I wonder if a lack of class divisions is what encourages small talk in our society.
One thing about automated systems is that they have to work perfectly or they don't get used. I thought about this when taking the tram from the terminal to the parking facility at O'Hare Airport. I honestly don't know if the tram has a human driver or not. If that tram has a breakdown, it cause instant gridlock throughout the airport. And the way you make things work better (in the traditional quality control sense) is to make them more predictable.
And admittedly, I'm not shy, but I'm just a bit muddle-headed. With an app, I can see every detail of my request on the screen (and be looking at Google Maps on another screen maybe, or other information sources) before I click "accept." This makes it easier. But when I click "accept," I really don't care if the car that shows up has a human driver or not. I'm also pretty much oblivious as to whether it's a Mercedes or a Chevy.
It was an old school approach to appear friendly, which in theory makes customers more comfortable and encourages retention. Small steps to build a community. At the very least, you don't want to appear like that unresponsive cashier who's clearly having a bad day and grimaces at you when you say 'hello'.
It's definitely a generational issue. Gen X and older seem to appreciate small talk more than most millenials and pretty much all of Gen Z.
Yeah, Walgreens (US drugstore chain for those who aren’t familiar) often has their cashiers say “hi, welcome to Walgreens!” when customers come in.
It just doesn’t work. Customers are wearing headphones, or on the phone, or sick with a respiratory infection and wearing a mask and trying not to talk unnecessarily, or don’t speak English very well, or maybe they’re just trying to remember everything they need, and it quickly gets awkward for everyone.
The same store often has the credit card terminal ask customers to donate a dollar to various causes, which I’ve seen completely stump foreign tourists and generally slowing down the line.
Perhaps I'm overly cynical but I always assumed the walgreens greeting was an anti-theft thing. It's particularly apparent with the big box stores in bad neighborhoods where they are extremely overt about it in my experience - at least two greeters, making strong eye contact, a very loud and energetic greeting - whereas the ones in the nicer neighborhoods often don't have anyone hanging out at the front like that.
> It's interesting how American cultural expectations of forced social interaction may be having the effect of promoting automated systems as a reaction.
That's not it. The issue is that it is FAR easier for me to interact with automation than some completely incompetent service worker.
Yes, I get it. The service jobs pay so poorly that nobody competent wants to work them. However, at the end of the day, I simply want to accomplish my task and get going. For example, if you're drunk or stoned off your ass, to pick a totally random (not) example, you're probably in my way.
Because of general levels of incompetence, automated systems are quite often better than most service workers I'm interacting with. Additionally, the service worker probably is limited to the same authority as me ie. totally unable to help because they are completely stuck with the same shitty web interface to solve my problem as I am.
Gotta disagree here. Running a checkout lane isn't exactly rocket science, and as such the vast majority of the experiences I have in staffed checkout lanes are neutral to good.
When using automated checkout on the other hand, if I even so much as move the wrong way, the system stops and makes me wait for a staff member who is busy dealing with 6 other red-flashing checkouts. When they finally make it over to me, I'm forced to sit and watch a video from 3 angles of me not shoplifting. Accidentally scanned some alcohol instead of waiting until the end? Scanning is halted again until they get a chance to make their way over to me. Using my own bags, but guess the wrong number up front and need to add one later? STOP THIEF!
Recently our local Aldi removed all but one staffed register and replaced the rest with automated. This is absolutely baffling to me--the cashiers at Aldi don't make small talk, they're trained for speed! It's fun to watch while I'm bagging up my groceries, because the staffed register is consistently crushing carts at 3x the rate of any of the self checkouts.
Automated checkouts are consistently worse, and it's not even close. I guess the one benefit they have is that they make small talk with the single person managing 14 self checkouts easier--you already have in common your frustration with the self checkout system.
> if I even so much as move the wrong way, the system stops and makes me wait for a staff member who is busy dealing with 6 other red-flashing checkouts.
This is completely the fault of the store.
This is on irritating display with the HEB grocery stores in Texas. Go to a standard HEB and self-checkout has exactly the failures you are talking about. Go to a Central Market HEB (the upscale, Whole Foods-like version) and the self-checkouts don't do ANY of those irritating things (alcohol being the exception).
Funny that.
I hate checkout machines that require a billion taps on the screen for basic vegetables or fruit. Just give me the keyboard immediately and let me type the first 3 letters or something.
unrelated but we got new checkout machines that used computer vision to guess what fruits are on the scale. It gives 5 guesses on top of the screen, and usual UI on the bottom, allowing shortcut so fast when it guesses correctly, that it feels like a future.
All my friends are convinced that "computer vision" on this thing is just color-based. I kinda think they are right, and we could have had that for decades
> The issue is that it is FAR easier for me to interact with automation than some completely incompetent service worker
You are comparing good automation with incompetent service worker. It's obvious what the conclusion would be.
> You are comparing good automation with incompetent service worker. It's obvious what the conclusion would be.
Sure. But the problem is that I so rarely interact with a competent service worker nowadays that even poor automation sadly wins the comparison most of the time.
If the automated systems work I'd use them. Instead, USA systems are designed around trying to prevent theft and they error in the store's favor. I've had those automated systems scream that I haven't put my purchase in the bag. The purchase being single envelope of yeast, too light to measure. So it screams and scream "PLEASE PLACE THE PRODUCT IN THE BAG", "PLEASE PLACE THE PRODUCT IN THE BAG", "PLEASE PLACE THE PRODUCT IN THE BAG", "PLEASE PLACE THE PRODUCT IN THE BAG" until some employee comes over and presses reset on the machines. Meanwhile the entire store is glaring at you.
So yea, I've stop using automated machines in the USA.
Definitely a store choice. I am in an area with Publix grocery stores and have never had an issue with self checkout. I bring my own bags and have a bag in the bag area and one in the cart and can scan items and put them right back in the bag cart without any issue. They have a person monitoring the 5 stations and clearing alcohol purchases and other issues and it goes very fast. They also pay their people well, so the staffed checkout lanes are also very fast. I just personally prefer packing my own bags, even though I’m not as quick as the workers.
i avoid those stores, i agree it’s very irritating. Stop & Shop is a good example. The checkout machine is constantly weighing the bag! Ugh.
As an FYI there are stores that DON’T have annoying self checkout machines: Target, Walmart, Whole Foods, Costco, Home Depot, and a few more…
I don't think it's an USA thing. I completely stopped using the self checkout at my closest store. When I put a fucking 12 pack of toilet paper on the scale and it errored out.
I mean, you can error out at food stuff that loses weight over time (fresh bread for example), that may be acceptable. But at known weight toilet paper?
Flagged and dead? Are we to take that as Y-Combinator officially endorsing violent rioting and property destruction?
I'd say it's the rejection of a tangential political snipe in support of autocratic authoritarianism, in a place where it isn't going to lead to a fleshed-out discussion.
Keep turning the screws on people, and some people will turn to property destruction. The individual acts are wrong and misguided. But the overall dynamic is completely understandable, and ignoring it is as disingenuous as "let them eat cake".
It's interesting how American cultural expectations of forced social interaction may be having the effect of promoting automated systems as a reaction.
As someone who lives in Spain and has lived in the UK, the idea of choosing self-checkout at a supermarket to avoid small talk with a cashier sounds alien to me; we simply don't do that here. While cashiers will certainly chat with certain customers while scanning their items, it's either that they know each other or it was initiated by the customer. I always choose staffed checkout over self-checkout because it's literally less effort for me, but I could imagine American social expectations at checkout —"How are you doing today?", "Oh these apples look amazing!", "Having a party are we?"— absolutely tipping the balance of effort and pushing me to self-checkout.