Comment by afro88 5 days ago
Genuine question: isn't this everyone? Don't we all find large tasks hard to start and so we procrastinate? Isn't it common general advice for all people to break things down into smaller steps so you can get going
Right. But then when someone says "I see the symptom of broken legs everywhere now. When the blog author said they had trouble getting up the hills of San Francisco, I just knew they must have an undiagnosed broken leg", it's fair to be more than a little skeptical.
It seems silly because a broken leg is obvious and easy to diagnose. So the idea that someone has an undiagnosed broken leg is absurd.
A lot of illnesses are not as easy to spot. Even illnesses that have clear diagnostic factors might be undiagnosed if no one has done the right tests. For instance, gallbladder disease. Easy to test and diagnose, but only if someone has gone to the doctor and the doctor has done the right tests. If you've experienced gallbladder disease, you know the symptoms. So you might start noticing them in other people who just think its indigestion or a pulled muscle or whatever.
That analogy ignores what was actually confusing about this topic. A better analogy would be:
Alice has a medical problem related to hill walking so she walks up the hill wearing sneakers, Bob also had a medical problem related to hill walking so he uses a handkerchief to wipe off his sweat while walking up the hill, and Charlie, the out of shape adult, also uses sneakers and a handkerchief but not in a medical way even though his feet hurt without sneakers and he does sweat.
ADHD-I has a range of symptoms where the person needs 5 or more that are significantly disruptive to their life for at least 6 months.
So when someone reads the first paragraph and immediately thinks the author has to be ADHD because they talk about 1 of these symptoms that in isolation the majority of the world has, I ask "but aren't we all like this?"
Most symptoms of ADHD are things almost everybody experiences from time to time, some even regularly. What makes ADHD is combination of many symptoms cranked to 11.
ADHD is the difference between having difficulties starting some tasks and being absolutely unable to start a mundane task until you curl yourself into a corner and cry.
That being said, things that help people coping with ADHD can totally help people not having ADHD but suffering similar issues (case in point: planning and handling tasks)
(throwaway account for anonymity)
> ADHD is the difference between having difficulties starting some tasks and being absolutely unable to start a mundane task until you curl yourself into a corner and cry.
Can't agree with this enough.
I'm currently suffering from absolutely crippling procrastination.
I'm a successful respected principal engineer with 25+ years industry experience but in the last couple of years my procrastination has got so so much worse. I've just got through my third PIP (Performance Improvement Plan) in the last 18 months. Thankfully my employer believes in me and continues to give me a chance, but they're not a charity and they've made it clear that I need to continue to perform or I'm gone.
For example, the last PIP I knew exactly what I had to do, it was agreed in advance and completely fair. I should have had no problem completing everything without having to work silly hours. I just needed to grind my way through it and apply my experience and expertise as and when needed (when to escalate, etc). Instead I sat on things for weeks and weeks until the fear and panic of not being able to provide for my family (I'm the sole earner in the house) started to really hit and give me the necessary motivation. It was an immensely stressful position I put myself in. (To be clear, the company is awesome, they're very supportive and they really want me to succeed.)
Taking any significant time off isn't an option. It's not burnout (been there, done that). I can't afford not to be working. We're stretched very thin already due to other medical problems amongst my immediate family but we can get by if I'm working. Changing companies isn't going to solve anything either; my current employer is not the problem. I am. Anywhere else would probably be far worse.
It is utterly crippling at times; and the majority of the time. I can sit at my desk for days and do 30 minutes of "work" each day. Then the deadlines hove into view and I'm doing a days worth of work in 30 minutes.
I'm awaiting an official ADHD diagnosis and expect to be diagnosed with Inattentive type. Hopefully medication will make things easier for me.
I should have gone down the diagnosis route many years ago but, guess what, procrastination.
When I was this way there were two things going on 1. It was one of the most stressful times in my life 2. I didn't know I had sleep apnea so was always exhausted
2 was a much quicker fix than 1 and boy did it makes things much more manageable and at least get me going in a positive direction.
Also for the meds part they are literally life changing for me so hopefully they help you.
Good luck out there hope you find something that works :)
With mental illnesses there is no clear limit between normal and sick. However there is a point when it's really hurting the person afflicted.
For example procrastination: everyone procrastinate more or less, but in people with ADHD, procrastination happens even when they actively don't want to procrastinate, and even when it hurts them right now to procrastinate.
Another example : depression. It's not easy from an external point of view to see where is the limit between sadness and depression, however at one point the sadness has no objective reason, and is so overwhelming the brain that the person cannot function normally or is able to mentally fight it
> procrastination happens even when they actively don't want to procrastinate, and even when it hurts them right now to procrastinate.
That applies to just about everyone. It’s why there are countless books and articles on defeating procrastination.
I get that this is partly HN devils advocacy and partly a very human bias towards thinking all brains are your brain, but it's like saying that everyone has creaky joints so people with arthritis are just complaining too much.
Inattentive type ADHD makes you physically incapable of concentration. Procrastination is a symptom of the underlying problem, which is that the attention mechanism in your brain is chemically broken. People with this disorder are forced to 'manually' drive executive functions in a way that people with fully functioning norepinephrine synthesis systems can't really understand.
It is surmountable, but it's very hard and it's an 'invisible' condition. The sad thing is that most people with this (actual, real, chemically identifiable) condition spend most of their lives internalizing that they are lazy and worthless and desperately wishing they knew how to not be that. I have vivid memories of thinking those things when I was in elementary school. I am relatively high functioning now because I understand that my mind needs external control loops to keep me halfway productive but it comes with a whole lot of constant anxiety and shame that I can't do anything about.
It's a real thing.
No, most people have never found themselves staring at a pile of unpaid bills and collection notices, while knowing there's work they should be doing that would pay those bills...and feeling physically and mentally incapable of starting that work. Not "I don't wanna" or "I'd rather play games right now," but "I know I should do that, I know it would make my life better and I want that so bad...but I just can't."
It's horrible, and definitely not something that applies to just about everyone.
I do need to push back because I think what you're describing here is an emotional dysfunction, not an executive dysfunction, and I think the former really is a nearly universal experience to some degree or another. Maybe not all the time but certainly some of the time.
I had never experienced this exact scenario before my thirties but I ran into an exceptionally busy period in my life where I found myself overwhelmed with tasks and accidentally ignored my credit cards for a couple months. I eventually realized this, but I put it off for at least another month, even though every other day I was thinking about it and I wanted to solve the problem, knowing it was an easy problem to fix and that I had the time to solve it despite being busy. The reason I didn't was because of fear, the dread of the unknown (how bad were the overage charges going to be?) but also a fear of being faced with such an obvious failure, even though objectively I knew the loss would be trivial.
I think this drives most forms of procrastination, certainly everyone I've talked to about it (parents, friends, coworkers) describe it in similar words, comparing it to the anticipation of touching a hot stove, etc.
I don’t think you understand depression. There’s a big difference between depression and sadness … like the difference between purple and green. They are just not comparable. This is not shades of a different color. My personal experience is: “I’m sad” and that can mean… “I want to cry” But If im depressed can be like “I’m happy.., and yet.. I don’t see the point of living.”
I doubt the distinction between depressed and not depressed is all that clear.
I know scales like BDI 2 assign a number and use terms like:
– BDI-II scoring:
0-13 is considered none or minimal range depression;
14-19 mild depression;
20-28 moderate depression;
29-63 severe depression.
https://strokengine.ca/en/assessments/beck-depression-invent...
There is no objective cutoff point is what I'm saying.
I think with many things in psychiatry, yes this is a common experience, but part of a diagnosis is actually about it becoming a real problem in your life. We all have aspects of a lot of different things that become disorders depending on the impact they have in your life. Not a psychologist, but this is how I understand the distinction, and why the diagnostic criteria are set up the way they are.
There is a long running conversation within the medical profession about the usefulness of marginal diagnosis. When everyone has ADHD how do doctors help the people who really NEED help with ADHD. Who 'really' needs help is of course subjective.
I think we can all agree that we are in a period of over medicalisation and we've combined that with a misconception that doctors/drugs/science can cure, and even should cure, everything.
Well people differ. Look around at your colleagues, some have dry eyes and lower back pain from working hours without interruption on a boring task.
Others, like myself, are easily distracted, quickly bored and only work hard with a specific goal in mind. Working on smaller tasks makes it easier to not be distracted. I feel this is more important for people with ADHD.
But you are right, in the end it is useful strategy for everyone :)
Here's an analogy that might make it clearer:
Alice is in a wheelchair.
Bob has a broken leg.
Charlie is unfit, but otherwise a healthy adult.
Alice, Bob, and Charlie would all say "I find getting up the hills of San Francisco difficult". But "doesn't everyone find that hard" conflates the causes and severity of the difficulty for the three of them in a way that isn't useful for making their complaints feel heard, or addressing the complaints such that they don't have that issue.
For example:
Alice could get an electric wheelchair.
Bob could take public transit / Ubers up, or get rides from their friends.
Charlie could take up running with friends.