Comment by miotintherain

Comment by miotintherain 2 days ago

33 replies

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Hi Peter, thanks for doing this AMA.

I am traveling to the US soon for work from Europe. I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks. My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection, but times has changed now and it has been happening a lot more frequently. I am wondering what is the best course of action, prior to travel and if asked to give your phone and password. Also, what happens if you refuse to do so? Is the worst case scenario that they will send you back to where you came from?

proberts 2 days ago

The short answer is that CBP has the right to ask to see your electronic devices and you have the right to refuse but if you refuse (and you are not a U.S. green card holder or citizen), CBP likely will deny you admission and send you home.

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  • deadbabe 2 days ago

    I had a friend who was asked to unlock her phone, and she did, and then… they did nothing. They watched her do it and moved on to the next question.

    Seems like asking someone to do this is just a good test to see the kind of individual they’re dealing with. It’s not practical to thoroughly search phones at scale and plus they know people can just have burner phones anyway. If you’re cagey and combative they know you’re a problem.

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    • mrguyorama 2 days ago

      It's CBP

      It's not actually about any form of screening. It's a power trip. Only the dumbest criminal or terrorist would bring an incriminating device across the border and have any need to say "no" to that request.

      Which, stopping dumb criminals and terrorists is important and valuable and they do exist, but nobody applied to work for CBP in order to check the phones of dumb criminals. They applied because they have strong opinions about certain things.

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      • deadbabe 2 days ago

        Still, if a dumb criminal or terrorist does slip past you, that just means you’re an even bigger idiot. So might as well ask people to unlock the phone.

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        • ulfw 11 hours ago

          LOL. Yea. Sure. That scales up well with millions of tourists.

          Madness how this is being normalised now in the US

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    • Propelloni 2 days ago

      An acquaintance used to work airport security and he told me they asked to unlock/power up etc. electronic devices such as phones, laptops or SLR to check if they are real electronic devices. Apparently they were -- maybe are -- afraid of EDs that looked like electronics on the scanners.

      Not completely groundless, even if I could think of more than one way to construct a device, e.g. laptop, that boots up and still explodes, but hey.

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      • AStonesThrow 2 days ago

        Perhaps EDs are a concern, but mostly what terrorists actually use phones for is remote detonation. A feature phone is the ideal sort of radio transmitter, modified or not, to send a remote command to detonate explosives. If security is really scrutinizing carry-on luggage, then perhaps the strategy moves to placing a bomb in checked baggage, and carrying only the trigger through the checkpoint.

        So if you force someone to turn on their phone or laptop at security, you will hopefully force the decision point; even if the inspector cannot tell the difference, a terrorist is going to get real nervous and jumpy around activating the thing they intend to use as a detonator, in contrast to some businessdude activating his very ordinary mobile device.

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    • Tadpole9181 a day ago

      For most people, a phone contains:

      1. An itemized list of every account they have and their passwords and any 2FA they've used.

      2. Multiple forms of payment.

      3. A photo gallery that, in many (if not most) cases, will have private content.

      4. The contact information of everyone they know, who have not consented to having that information distributed.

      I find the entire idea that it's acceptable for any barely-educated border agent having a power trip with no probable cause to demand this under the duress of rejection, repugnant.

      Especially in a country where police officers are occasionally allowed to "have sex" with people they apprehend - it seems like there's nothing that actually stops a CBP agent from just stopping any attractive woman they happen to see and demanding their phone so they can find nudes.

      Say no? Get deported, no legal recourse.

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    • [removed] 2 days ago
      [deleted]
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BeetleB 2 days ago

Not a lawer, but the ACLU has a page on this:

Short FAQ:

https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/what-do-when-encounter...

Dedicated article:

https://www.aclu.org/news/privacy-technology/can-border-agen...

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david422 2 days ago

I'm wondering if anyone uses burner phones. I have an old phone, and a second phone number that I got from Tello for $5 a month, intending to use it for a business number, but then never did. It's currently completely detached from anything personal and I figure if I do need to go over the border I could just use that still for any communication and internet access, but personal details would be at a very bare minimum.

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  • AdrianB1 a day ago

    Yes. If I will have to go there on a normal visa, I will not take my phone with me, just the SIM card. For the laptop, I don't care at all, it is a company laptop and as long as the company agrees to open it up for the border control, I will, but I will set a clean password upfront that meets the minimum complexity requirements ("UperLower12345#") with no access to anything else. I have long random passwords on all accounts like email or Amazon account, I never type it in because I never know the password, that may be a problem if they ask me - who will believe that the only 2 passwords I ever know are for the company laptop and for my desktop at home in Europe?

    This is not because I have something to hide, but because I have nothing to show. I don't have Facebook, Twitter or Instagram accounts, don't keep pictures on the phone (family pictures are downloaded on the NAS, I don't take other pictures), so there is nothing to show on a personal level, while the company I work for is a big, old US company and the content of the laptop is theirs, not mine, and it is nothing sensitive that even our business competitors would be interested into.

    I case I would go there as a tourist, my only luggage would be my motorcycle helmet and a pair of gloves, I would rent a bike, buy a cheap phone with a local number and do road trips around the country. Not even a suitcase, so nothing to show. If they ask me about itinerary, that is a high risk for me because I use to travel across Europe without an itinerary, just a direction, they may not believe me, but old bikers don't go to a destination, they go wherever the road goes.

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fucalost 2 days ago

For what it’s worth, I recently travelled to the US from the Middle East (into Houston) and was also concerned about this.

My solution was to delete apps I didn’t want to be searched (e.g. WhatsApp) after having made a cloud backup, then enabling airplane mode.

CBP’s website [1] states:

> Prior to beginning a basic or advanced search, CBP Officers will ensure all data and network connections are disabled

And no, I wasn’t searched (thankfully!)

[1] https://www.cbp.gov/travel/cbp-search-authority/border-searc...

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pimeys a day ago

Yeah, this worries me a lot. I have a quite tricky Type 1 diabetes, which I can manage well with an artificial pancreas software that's running in my phone. Now if they tamper my phone, or take it completely away when crossing the border, I am in quite a trouble. Especially after a big change in time zones, the health apps really do their job and help me settle in without medial risks in a few days.

This is such a risk right now, that me and my American partner decided to not travel to US at all until things change. Too bad we cannot see some of the family in there...

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twosid3dDice 2 days ago

Leave gadgets at home. Buy burners here. Access data remotely.

Wipe and dump burners before flight home.

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mandeepj 2 days ago

> My mindset has always been to never give my personal phone for an inspection

Get a burner phone! Upload your entire data to the cloud as well. Either you can store your phone in the check-in luggage or restore your data once you've arrived at your US location.

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  • rane 2 days ago

    So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?

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    • mandeepj 3 hours ago

      > So what happens if you just put your phone in the check-in luggage and say you don't have a phone?

      Carry a cheap burner phone with you, then.

      Related: KPMG, Deloitte Ask Staff to Use Burner Phones for overseas travel -> https://archive.is/lml0L

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    • AdrianB1 a day ago

      Don't lie. If you are caught, very nasty things can happen to you.

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      • ulfw 11 hours ago

        Or even better, don't go there in the first place. This is madness. How are you just normalising this?

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belorn 2 days ago

For any electronic device it is advisable to take a complete backup of the unit, store an encrypted version somewhere online, and then restore the device to factory reset. Do not log in to any account that you wouldn't feel perfectly fine giving up in an inspection.

They can already hijack any phone number, so the only vulnerability you are giving up by crossing the border is the files, call log/sms, and accounts you bring with you.

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protocolture 2 days ago

As early as the last Trump presidency I was seeing people with good opsec doing the following.

1. Backup your device to the cloud (a different cloud than the default if possible)

2. Erase your device

3. Provide your empty / near empty device for inspection.

4. Load the backup after the airport checks.

It might be wise to update this with some basic changes, like creating fake accounts that are auto signed in on your device. Blank twitter account, blank gmail account etc.

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lbrito 2 days ago

Given the very real risks involved, can't your employer waive the travel requirement for the next few years?

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  • bbarnett 2 days ago

    Culture and society are a road, a path.

    What if the current path means a permanent shift. What if this administration seems friendly compared to the next?

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robomartin 2 days ago

> I have been reading a lot of articles about detentions at US airports and phone checks.

I travel internationally all the time. I work with companies in China, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Europe and Latin America. Meaning, I know lots of people who travel internationally with great frequency. I have never heard from anyone having any such problems. Ever. Not during this administration nor others. Stop listening to idiots pushing false narratives. It's fear mongering. Not real.

Oddly enough, I have been asked more questions when travelling to Canada (Montreal) over the years than almost anywhere else. Nothing serious, thigs like "Why are you travelling to Canada?", "Where are you staying?", "How long?", "Where do you work?", "What's your website and business email?", "Who are you meeting with?", "What is their contact information?", etc. And, BTW, all of this at the standard entry passport check booth, not a side room.

Of course, it feels intrusive when it happens. I look at it as security theater. Just chill and go through the process. Being stupid about this can ruin your trip in any country. Unless you are a diplomat, you are not important enough to bother with. Picking a fight with entry officials in any country will result in bad things happening to you. Don't be that person.

To the point about security theater: Last year we travelled to Mexico on vacation. When we got to the hotel we bought a few supplies. A couple of the items were sealed the type of plastic packaging that you cannot possibly open with your bare hands or teeth. I said "I'll go to the front desk and see if they can let me use a pair of scissors". Without missing a beat, my daughter pulls out a pair of standard size Fiskars scissors from her luggage. Jaw drop moment. She went through security, full scan, and a pair of scissors made it onto the plane. So, yeah, security theater at its best. BTW, the scissors did not make it through security at the airport in Mexico when returning.

BTW, I have also hired Canadian engineers and we've never had problems. You just have to go through the process, hire and attorney and do it right. Which, BTW, is true anywhere in the world.

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  • brailsafe 2 days ago

    I've heard similar accounts, and anecdotally holds up, although my experience travelling for work specifically is limited. Incidentally, as a Canadian, I've been searched many more times, if not 100% of the time, coming back from the states than going in. Security theater in both directions though for sure, just looking for a slip up. Going in to the states, I once had a slightly vague answer about where I was staying because I'd planned to camp on a long road trip. They pulled me into the lineup and then asked me again, I tried explaining but they just wanted an address and hinted as such, so I just google searched a hotel in front of them and gave them that. They've got boxes to check.

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briandear 2 days ago

> it has been happening a lot more frequently.

Is that factual? Or has the media simply been covering it more due to their bias?

International Travelers Processed with Electronic Device Search

Fiscal Year Quarter Total Border Searches Conducted FY 24, Q1 10,937 FY24, Q2 11,273 FY24, Q3 12,090 FY24, Q4 12,658 FY25, Q1 12,092 FY25, Q2 12,260

(The U.S. 2024 fiscal year began on September 28, 2023)

To understand the scale, in FY25 Q2, there were 88 million entries.

So the assertion that 1) electronic searches are statistically meaningful and 2) they are increasing by any significance is just media-fed fear.

One ought to consider the UK’s Terrorism Act of 2000 — the police do not even need reasonable suspicion of a crime to stop and search a person, their vehicle, or electronic devices. https://www.hrw.org/report/2010/07/04/without-suspicion/stop...

You can also be arrested in the UK for the crime of insulting someone. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18102815.amp

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