Comment by JKCalhoun

> It's interesting. I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though — do people want not just patch cables all over their mixing desk but knobs as well?

I don't personally feel the need of wanting more cables all over my current setup, but sometimes I have had the feeling of "Oh if I could just modulate the VCF Cutoff on my Zen Delay with a patch cable from my modular instead of doing it manually" for some of the desktop units I have next to the modular.

And on the other side, I've also felt the need of having some of the patch holes replaced by knobs, so I could just twist and turn it to evaluate if I want to modulate it, instead of having to actually setup the patch. I could see something like this knob-idea being very useful for that, basically prototyping patches.

> I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering

This is definitely true, large parts of the community is about tinkering more than making music. But the same is true for programming, large parts of the community is not about problem solving, but coding. That's fine, we all have different motivations :)

What I found really useful (for myself at least) is to try to connect with people who are artists first, who just happen to be using modular synths, rather than finding people tinkering with modular synths who don't actually produce/perform music.

> I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though

Good for you :) A friend pulled me into this dark abyss a month ago. Lots of fun, so many distractions, but lots of fun. Helps that Barcelona (where I live) have a lively community around modular synths as well. It is expensive though, and VCVRack doesn't come close to providing the same experience.

> Like a few good sounding pedals that, ideally, each have just a knob or two.

It makes for a nice narrative but I haven't found it holds much water; musicians are all over the place on this spectrum. You'll find both extremes very well represented, and a good chunk of people who compartmentalize their "dayjob" music and tinkering. I've found a lot of successful musicians love to tinker and are always on the search for new inspiration. Like any good craftsperson they take some amount of pride in their tools and I've been blown away by how technical many can get on the electronics side! It's always funny to see Reverb auctions go up for famous musicians and finding out a bassist in a pop punk band owns a bunch of weird synthesizers :)

Simple one to two knob pedals are a big deal but you'll see a very large number of pros touring with extremely complicated modeling setups and all sorts of gadgets. At a certain point you really know what you want, and having the ability to dial that in is important! I tend to gravitate towards simplicity in a band setting but I know a lot of people who want dirt pedals with 10 knobs so they can dial in the sounds they hear in their heads.

Maybe they are tinkering, but sounds still come out while they are tinkering. So maybe they're playing music after all? The idea that if you're not recording and releasing tracks you're doing it "wrong" is a bit silly IMO. Just strumming a guitar or playing some chords on a piano without recording any of it was always an "acceptable" hobby and not considered "unmusical", playing with synths and sequencers is no different IMO.

My favorite documentary I have not seen (yet), I Dream of Wires from 2013, about modular synthesizers. I know in some trailer there was a maker of modules saying something to the effect that if only people actually making music with their synths bought modules he would be out of business. Can't find that trailer now or I did not watch carefully enough now. There are a few different ones on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQSxqha62j0

> I haven't been sucked into the Eurorack thing though

I'm the same. I love playing around with making electronic music on a hobby level and I find the idea and look of modular synths appealing - and I'm also a pushover for most retro things, especially those with cool knobs and blinkenlights. However, if I'm honest, I don't really enjoy creating music with modular or vintage analog "knobby" synths. I haven't ever bought a modular rig and my vintage analog synths are lovingly packed away with my numerous retro Amiga, Atari and Commodore computers where they wait to be enjoyed in limited doses on special occasions.

So, to address your implied question, IMHO I don't think people like us are somehow "missing" something deep and great in modular synths. To me, the essence of the modular appeal is three things: 1) tactile feedback that's responsively immediate, 2) a set of compatible 'lego block' components which can be combined in creative ways, and 3) An element of randomness from the combined interactions on analog components.

While modular rigs offer all three of those things, having those three together doesn't require analog hardware or a dedicated modular rig. I think I can get a very similar creative feeling and joy of discovery (plus a smidge of randomness) from the right combination of high-quality MIDI control surfaces and a well-chosen set of synth plug-ins running on a computer. To be sure, some MIDI control surfaces are crap and not all synth plug-ins enable creative experimentation deep enough and easy enough to 'scratch that itch'. But, then again, it's possible to assemble an ill-conceived modular rig out of poor quality components that also fails to inspire creativity. While finding that unique balance of factors sufficient to trigger creative serendipity isn't trivial with either analog hardware or digital MIDI + plug-ins, to me the advantages of digital in cost, size, speed, repeatability and flexibility win out.

I guess it's possible there's some other essential element which analog modular rigs provide that I'm missing out on but if so, I haven't been able to discover what it is.

Watch some episodes of LOOK MUM NO COMPUTER for an example of the kind of tinkering/creativity some people at least love to have available in the physical realm: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCafxR2HWJRmMfSdyZXvZMTw

A lot of the music is made just playing with different parts of the sound, and having all the controls exposed to be messed with can lead to more creativity.

IMO, kind of like how I enjoy Linux configuration files, in a way, more than I do a GUI that covers up 90% of the guts of an application or server software.

There’s definitely a thing in music, as in computing, or golfing, or whatever, where some people are more into the gear than the actual practice of doing the thing. Modular synths are a great outlet for those kinds of people.

I have a modest Eurorack setup and a few other synths and I find them a nice way to get into music making without looking at a computer. It’s nice to have a limited set of options, rather than a near infinite set of software plugins and presets. My gear can only make a certain number of sounds at once, and that’s it. The liberty of constraints.

When I get serious about a music project I inevitably end up working in a computer DAW but I often don’t find that an inspiring place to start.

For me I pretty quickly realized that I like synths to make sounds, or maybe a bit of programming (with wires!) to make an electronic music box.

But making songs? Just not for me... And that's a whole different thing.

The knobs tend to be the "public API" and the patch cables the wiring up of the functionality to that public API. having a knob for each patch is akin to making every method 'public' instead of protected or private.

It's somewhat similar to people enjoying developing their game engine more than their game in my experience. Provably why in attracted to it despite having little musical talent :)

I got sucked into it a little over a year ago, it's starting to wear a bit thin for me already though.

> I sense there are a lot of enthusiasts that do a lot more tinkering than actually playing them

It's called "sound design" :) Can't start on a song until the timbre of my never-quite-done-this-way-before saw tooth bass is juuuuuuust right.

Don't get sucked into modular hardware synths. They are TONS of fun, but it is a very expensive hobby. Monotrail Tech Talk has a few excellent videos on YouTube, but he must have spent a fortune on his gear.

i'm happy someone is considering new physical ideas/approaches at least as i find the trend in recent years of basically putting full "computers" into eurorack modules ridiculous. not just raspberry pi's behind a eurorack plate but with full configurability / user interfaces.

the release of the 4ms meta module was when i decided to be happy with what i have because it's becoming an unironic misguided circlejerk of sorts