Comment by diggan

Comment by diggan a day ago

18 replies

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Interesting idea for sure, but how is the feel of actually turning the knob? Seems to offer short to no resistance, which would make fast but precise movements pretty hard, something that is important for things like performances.

What would be a huge bonus point (but maybe unrealistic? I don't quite understand how the current implementation actually works) would be software-configurable resistance (physical, not electrical). I've spent a lot of time for my DIY modules to find the right knobs, or the right process to adjust the resistance of my existing knobs, being able to control that digitally could introduce a whole new level of fun.

scottapotamas a day ago

You might enjoy https://github.com/scottbez1/smartknob

The complexity of this approach (ignoring the display and flair) unfortunately means you won’t see this used too often due to cost.

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  • hinkley 33 minutes ago

    This is what cars need. Only make the entire dial depressable instead of the embedded screen. Use different haptics for each setting so you can feel which setting you’re changing.

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  • diggan a day ago

    That's so cool on so many levels, and I really enjoyed that indeed, now I have to fight the urge to try to build it myself, good thing it's weekend.

    However, it does seem to miss the single most useful feature (for me) which is the resistance part. I understand there is a DC motor controlling the snap points and whatnot, but what I'd like is constant resistance I guess, to a configurable level, rather than snapping to specific points and such.

    I don't think it would be possible to hack on top of the already made hardware, but didn't seem like it was already done in the software side of things, although I did skim through things so maybe I missed it.

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    • pakue a day ago

      Should be doable to add that. The BLDC needs to add a proportional (or any other function) force against the rotation direction until it reaches 0.

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      • diggan a day ago

        Sounds reasonable, wonder how that would actually feel in real life? As far as I understand, this would pass through digital parts, adding a little bit of (maybe noticeable) latency, but I wonder if the latency gets high enough for it to be a bit jarring that the resistance is dynamically changing as you apply torque.

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  • weinzierl a day ago

    My dream is a piano keyboard with entirely software controlled mechanical key response. Every key individually mounted on a servostepper. As a bonus it could be used as a fake player piano. Or for practice you could make the wrong keys hard to press. Endless possibilities.

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    • Q6T46nT668w6i3m a day ago

      Great idea and I’m shocked this doesn’t exist.

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      • robotresearcher a day ago

        It would likely be very, very expensive.

        A compromise that is affordable and does exist is programmable response curves to key velocity and aftertouch pressure. It can make sense to have different curves for eg. piano vs harpsichord even if you can’t change the mechanical key impedance.

        I haven’t seen it in the wild, but using this you could make the wrong notes quieter/louder or even play a different sound. But I think we all know when we play a wrong note, so the utility might be small.

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    • adamgordonbell a day ago

      > Or for practice you could make the wrong keys hard to press.

      This seems like a pretty cool idea

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      • tarentel a day ago

        I'm not convinced it would work very well on making you a better player but who knows. Either way, it sounds like a good way to injure yourself. Piano is a very percussive instrument and if you're hitting the keys with any force and they don't give the way you expect them to I imagine that won't be very great for your joints.

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  • adolph a day ago

    A differently complex and smaller approach might be to combine the knob with with an axial flux PCB-BLDC, like what Carl Bugeja made [0, 1]. It might be suited to get haptics in something as small as the article's knob, although to get an in-built display you'd have to use one of those displays that fit in lego bricks [2, 3] with a slip-ring.

    0. https://microbots.io/products/motorcell

    1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVszJMlvZcA

    2. https://github.com/AncientJames/uGrey

    3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pUV_3qeHog

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    • diggan a day ago

      Many thanks for the links/references. I don't really care about the display itself (probably prefer without it actually), but never saw those other links before, interesting stuff.

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mrandish a day ago

> the right process to adjust the resistance of my existing knobs

I too have "a thing" about the feel of tactile control elements ranging from the tensioning of knobs and joysticks to the dampening on sliders, the force on my emulation arcade cabinet buttons and, of course, the keyswitches, o-rings and lube on my computer mechanical keyboards.

However, I don't really feel a need for software control of the tensioning feel. For example, I have a few different high-end dual-joystick radio control transmitters for RC aircraft. These have fairly pricey hall effect joystick mechanisms and the good ones have a tensioning adjustment for each axis on the bottom. Whether on these RC transmitters, my arcade cabinet or high-end console game controllers I find it's sufficient to simply set the tensioning to my preferences once and I don't feel the need to change it again.

So for the EuroKnob, I agree having no tensioning would be pretty awful - as there's little worse than a floppily loose knob wiggling about - but for me a simple friction-based drag adjustment would be fine.

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