Comment by maccard

Comment by maccard 18 hours ago

24 replies

View on Hacker News

I think the middle ground is healthy.

I'm in my early 30's, I have a job that I get to "create" in (I make video games).

> I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends. Had this person already seen the world and its many sights and wonders? Had they already experienced everything good there is to experience in this one lifetime that they were so bored of it that they would prefer to work instead? Had they already swam with whales, explored dense Amazonian jungles, climbed snowy mountains, explored the countless alleys and backstreets of Tokyo, etc.

Lots of these things are best done when you're younger, healthy, and able to do these things. I would _much_ rather live in a nice house in a nice area with exciting things to do from my mid 20's onwards and enjoy those things for years and years and years, rather than live in a smaller/cheaper/farther out place so that I can retire 10 years earlier and start living. I'd rather have 1-2 of those things to look forward to every year than say "I can't wait until I'm 50 and I can finally start doing all those things".

My dad counted down the days until he could retire, talked about how he would finally get to do X Y and Z. About 2 years before that, health conditions caught up and now he's not fit to do so many of those things that he was so excited and happy to do. If the tradeoff for me is working until I'm a little older while getting to enjoy the journey, rather than minmaxing the time that i can work and retire, then I'll choose to enjoy the ride.

CharlieDigital 17 hours ago

    > "I can't wait until I'm 50 and I can finally start doing all those things".
I had an uncle pass last year and he was only 30 years older than me. He had already retired and a multi-millionaire in assets. Yet my aunt refused to retire because of a high paying job with little actual work. She kept working.

When he passed, the family asked me to put together a montage video and shared their photos with me spanning his lifetime. The moments when he was the happiest seemed to be when they were traveling together. As students, as parents, as a couple after my cousins had graduated and started their own lives.

In those last years, he was "waiting" for my aunt to be ready and it felt sad that he didn't get to travel more because my aunt thought more about the money than the short lifetime they had left. His passing was like a wake up call of sorts; a reminder that life is shorter than anyone can expect. It's very hard to convey this in words until one experiences this first hand and feels the shock.

More recently in my own travels, I've realized the same as you: that traveling in your youth makes much more sense than traveling in your "golden" years. You have greater mobility, more energy, less ailments. 20's and 30's are prime for exploring the world. Work will always be there!

Reply View 20 replies
  • TimPC 16 hours ago

    I think it depends a lot on your finances though. If you come from a rich family and have parental support by all means it is amazing to travel young. But if your travel budget is coming out of your downpayment on your house that could easily be the difference between buying before house prices got out of control or not. For example if you could have bought in 2013 without travel and it takes you till 2015 to save up a 2013 downpayment but in 2015 house prices have gone up and your downpayment needs to be larger and it takes more time, etc.

    Reply View 7 replies
    • geodel 15 hours ago

      After reading a bit if history on travel/tourism I understood that this whole travel thing itself used to be luxury, upperclass thing. Most people would work and live where they are born, visit a few times in life outside for religious purpose or to attend important/relative's wedding etc. And that's about it.

      For myself I didn't travel much for leisure when I was young, I am not traveling when I am middle aged and have more money and I do not plan to when I am old/retired. Even when I did whatever little travel, my memories are just about fight, arguments, or endless waiting for admission to a sight which finally after visiting is "What's the fuss was all about?".

      On food the less I say the better. It was either over-hyped, over-priced. To top it all, concluding fine dining dinner of the trip when people after ordering table full of meal didn't eat a thing because they are far too drunk by then.

      Overtime I have come to conclusion the people with sensibilities and resources to travel and enjoy are far fewer than people actually travel due to exhorting by incessant marketing of travel.

      Reply View 5 replies
      • RankingMember 15 hours ago

        Different strokes I guess! I will say that there's something unique I get from travelling that I don't get from anything else- the visceral in-person reminder that people are, at their core, very similar everywhere- mostly decent people just living their lives. It's like an antidote to the "other"-ing that sometimes creeps into the psyche from our media landscape.

        Reply View 2 replies
      • [removed] 8 hours ago
        [deleted]
        Reply View 0 replies
      • carlosjobim 11 hours ago

        Travel has always been something people do. People are unaware of historic travel, because it was called "pilgrimage" and not "tourism", but in many ways the same. Discounting for all forms of migration, voluntary or involuntary, and discounting for all forms of trade travel, fishing expeditions and nomadic life.

        So while maybe most people through history stayed put, travel has never been just a luxury thing.

        Maybe you should find a reason for travel that interests you, and it will be more enjoyable? Instead of taking the tourist wholesale perspective?

        Reply View 0 replies
  • nyarlathotep_ 15 hours ago

    > Work will always be there!

    I really wish this were true; I'd take a year off to work on "life", but any sort of career pause, especially in this environment, seems to be a huge risk.

    Ageism is a concern--hell, even finding a new mediocre job in today's market is very difficult.

    I think it's "make hay while the sun shines". Seems the future has less opportunity, and there's plenty of time for underemployment later.

    Reply View 1 reply
    • CharlieDigital 13 hours ago

          > but any sort of career pause, especially in this environment, seems to be a huge risk.
      My experience is on the contrary. My largest gains in income have always come after a break. I'm making 2x what I made in 2020 after taking almost a year off to work on some side projects and startups (a YC submission)[0]. Then in 2023, decided to take another 8 months off to work on other side projects[1]

      But I also used those times to make the things I wanted to make; what I learned along the way is that oftentimes the biggest barrier to getting a better offer is actually the lack of free time and patience. If you can create time for yourself and put that time to good use, you will come out of it better for it as long as you apply that time productively.

      I've always guided junior engineers I've worked with to save as much as they can because that is what will give them opportunity and freedom. You need to be able to have free time to cram leetcode, for example, or build up a portfolio, or wait out bad offers.

      [0] https://www.thinktastic.com/#/

      [1] https://turas.app (I had to get this one out of my system and a partner and I tried to see if we could make this one sustainable)

      Reply View 0 replies
  • mattgreenrocks 16 hours ago

    Spent my 20s grinding away at getting great at building software. I enjoyed it mostly, but there are definite regrets, esp with tech never being able to shut up about how awesome AI is in killing off any notion of craft.

    Re: travel: this is one of the big takeaways from the book Die With Zero: travel is much easier when you are younger even if it is more expensive (relative to your assets). Just got back from an Italy trip where I averaged 5mi a day walking. 10 years from now (50s) it’s a coin flip if it would be possible for me to sustain that much walking over 10 days. Probable? Yes. But not guaranteed.

    Reply View 3 replies
    • CharlieDigital 16 hours ago

          > even if it is more expensive (relative to your assets)
      A lot of this is relative to one's standards and objectives. You are certainly right that it is expensive relative to assets in one's youth, but it can still be quite attainable if backpacking, hostels, and street food are options.

      When we went to Tokyo recently, the room we booked was tiny! The bed was only 6 or so inches away from the walls on each side. But for me, it was only a place to sleep at night and keep my luggage. If I had spent any more time than that in the hotel, it would have meant we did not spend enough time exploring Tokyo.

      Reply View 2 replies
      • laweijfmvo 16 hours ago

        years ago i stayed in a capsule in tokyo with shared bath house for something like $20!

        Reply View 1 reply
        • HPsquared 15 hours ago

          The cheapest hotels are often more interesting / memorable.

          Reply View 0 replies
  • maccard 17 hours ago

    Travelling isn’t the be all and end all of things either remember. That might be something that you prioritise but isn’t as important to other people. They might value time with family and friends, and that’s ok too. A bit like with food, “variety is the spice of life”

    Reply View 5 replies
    • CharlieDigital 17 hours ago

          > I immediately wondered if this individual had a family, friends.
      That was one of my first lines in my OP. My point is that exchanging your life time for money isn't the end all.
      Reply View 0 replies
    • motorest 16 hours ago

      > Travelling isn’t the be all and end all of things either remember.

      I think you're missing the whole point. For you, traveling might not be that fun. For OP's uncle, apparently it was. He had to forego that because of reasons.

      I do a fair share of traveling. I love it, and a few of my most cherished memories come from trips I did. This might come as a surprise to you, but the whole point of traveling is not to go from point A to point B or spend time in airports. The whole point is to do things you personally enjoy, including and not limited to spending time with people you enjoy being with. Most of the time, the destinations and the things we do are only the backdrop to the things we actually enjoy.

      Reply View 3 replies
      • CharlieDigital 16 hours ago

        Yup, many of the folks responding are glossing over this line in my OP:

            > Had they already experienced everything good there is to experience in this one lifetime that they were so bored of it that they would prefer to work instead?
        Reply View 2 replies
martindbp 14 hours ago

> I would _much_ rather live in a nice house in a nice area with exciting things to do from my mid 20's onwards and enjoy those things for years and years and years, rather than live in a smaller/cheaper/farther out place so that I can retire 10 years earlier and start living.

That's a false dichotomy. You can retire at least 25-30 years earlier than normal if you are a bit mindful of your spending and earn a decent salary. That makes the decision a bit harder doesn't it? Be frugal in your 20s and 30s, retire at 35-40 when you still mostly have your health, or so that you can actually focus on your health and increase your health span, and your 60s and 70s might be better than you expect. Whether this is worth it depends on your individual situation, how much do you earn, how painful is it for you to save, is there something you'd be retiring to, not just away from? I also wouldn't trade a life of misery for 10 retired years, but I don't think it's that simple.

Reply View 2 replies
  • kubb 14 hours ago

    If normal is 65, then you’re saying you can retire at 35. I have a great salary and I pretty much don’t spend except necessities (rent, food, clothes, healthcare). I’m not even close.

    Reply View 0 replies
  • margorczynski 13 hours ago

    > You can retire at least 25-30 years earlier than normal if you are a bit mindful of your spending and earn a decent salary

    I love how detached from reality some people on HN are. I assume by "decent salary" you mean $150k+ per year?

    Reply View 0 replies