Comment by mft_

Comment by mft_ 20 hours ago

7 replies

But why, indeed.

Years ago, I met someone (through another friend) who worked in CS, and was super into digital privacy. He was the first person I knew to run a Linux phone, for privacy reasons. He tried to pay for as much as possible by cash, and maintained his accounts manually on paper. The only way to contact him was by text message (intermittently, unreliably) or via a specific client using the Matrix protocol. My friend and I both installed the client to be able to contact him and maintain a friendship.

After a few months, we both lost contact with him simultaneously: something was updated in the client, and it was impossible to re-establish contact with him without a F2F interaction (="privacy"). Sadly, he was also uncontactable by text message. For both of us, the friendship simply ceased to exist.

My reflection is that such things --as with many things in life-- are on a spectrum. At some point on the spectrum, as you head towards the extreme end, your position on that spectrum (be it voluntary or --as with disease-- involuntary) start to impair your ability to live (what might be considered) a normal functional life. I'd also hazard that moving towards that extreme end of the spectrum beings increasing small gains, coupled with increasingly large downsides.

I'm not suggesting that running a pure Linux phone is extreme, but it's definitely in the middle zone where there are definite downsides.

erxam 11 hours ago

It is kind of extreme. I personally daily drove the OG Pinephone for about a year-and-a-half, back in 2020. I bought in during the postmarketOS edition.

I'm still dealing with the fallout from the choices I made in order to conform with that phone. And at the end of the day... I got nothing out of it. Nothing but issues, problems and inconveniences.

The modem eventually stopped working for some reason, and I moved to an iPhone 7 that had been abandoned for quite some time.

It felt like I had let out a breath I had been holding in for years.

em-bee 14 hours ago

i feel you, but these downsides have nothing to do with a linux phone, but with your friends privacy preferences. i am trying to be like that friend, except that i keep more communications channels open. i mean, verifying contacts face to face is one thing, but then we ought to at least have one unverified channel to arrange a meeting or a video chat.

also there are more safe options, like deltachat that don't depend on a phone at all. if we live in the same city we could have regular hangouts where we'd be able to meet without any prior arrangements. or if we know each other well enough you know where i live, or have contact to family members.

this is a matter of priority. i keep using the chinese wechat despite privacy concerns because it is the only way to stay in touch with friends and family in china. i long refused to use it, but as a consequence some friends from that time are now lost.

but outside of china matrix and deltachat are the best options even with android. and matrix unfortunately isn't even that good[1]. it still fails some times, and it is difficult to maintain a server and keep it spam free.

[1] matrix is getting better, but the key handling is complex, and at least one seurity minded friend rejected it in disgust last year when for unknown reasons at one point the encryption between us failed and we could not talk to each other. it's a problem when even tech oriented people privacy minded people reject matrix.

  • FredPret 12 hours ago

    > but with your friends privacy preferences.

    Network effects and human nature combines to make this a completely insurmountable obstacle. You'll likely never convince even a sizable minority of your own friends & family to do tech things the hard way because you think it's more private that way.

    That is the argument in favour of being a bit more mainstream - you get to interface with the rest of humanity with much less friction.

    • [removed] 11 hours ago
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gehsty 10 hours ago

As a layman in terms of security and operating systems, is this actually more secure or private than using iOS in lockdown mode and communicating via iMessage? Feels OTT for anything you might talk about in a personal relationship

mac-attack 14 hours ago

I had a similar experience with GrapheneOS. There is a balance in act between continuing down the privacy rabbit hole versus being able to communicate effectively with your social circle and it is easy to double down on privacy at the cost of relationships if you are not aware of how it is affecting others.

  • yjftsjthsd-h 13 hours ago

    I have my own problems with GrapheneOS, but I thought they made a great effort to make sure that it didn't really have that kind of downside. What problems did you hit?