Comment by dimonomid

Comment by dimonomid 2 days ago

13 replies

That's true, as of today nerdlog doesn't use journalctl, and needs plain log files. There were a few reasons of that, primarily related to the sheer amount of logs that we were dealing with.

As mentioned in the article, my original use case was: having a fleet of hosts, each printing pretty sizeable amount of logs, e.g. having more than 1-2GB log file on every host on a single day was pretty common. My biggest problem with journalctl is that, during some intensive spikes of logs, it might drop logs; we were definitely observing this behavior that some messages are clearly missing from the journalctl output, but when we check the plain log files, the messages are there. I don't remember details now, but I've read about some kind of ratelimiting / buffer overflow going on there (and somehow the part which writes to the files enjoys not having these limits, or at least having more permissive limits). So that's the primary one; I definitely didn't want to deal with missing logs. Somehow, old school technology like plain log files keeps being more reliable.

Second, at least back then, journalctl was noticeably slower than simply using tail+head hacks to "select" the requested time range.

Third, having a dependency like journalctl it's just harder to test than plain log files.

Lastly, I wanted to be able to use any log files, not necessarily controlled by journalctl.

I think adding support for journalctl should be possible, but I still do have doubts on whether it's worth it. You mention that you don't want to store plaintext logs and using logrotate, but is it painful to simply install rsyslog? I think it takes care of all this without us having to worry about it.

lenova 2 days ago

I appreciate this response, and want to say I really like your tool's UI over something like lazyjournal. But like the above commentor, I would love to see journald support as well, just because it's the default these days on the distros I use, and seems like the direction the Linux system industry has headed in.

  • dimonomid 2 days ago

    Thanks for the feedback. I'll see what I can do. But for now, do you think the workaround of having to install rsyslog is not good enough?

    • lenova 2 days ago

      I think it will impact first-time users giving nerdlog a quick test/trial run, and cause them to bounce to another tool when it doesn't show them logs from journald out of the box. Users can be finicky and impatient with new tools ;-)

      Example: I'm running an Arch-based Linux desktop. Installing ryslog took several minutes to build and install. If I wasn't highly motivated to try out nerdlog, I would have canceled the install.

      Also, can the SSH requirement for localhost be bypassed? Most users won't be running an SSH server on their desktop, and this would improve nerdlog's use-cases and make it easier for new users to give it a quick local test run.

      Final suggestion: add `go get` support to your repo, so that I can install nerdlog from a single command and not have to clone the repo itself.

      • dimonomid 2 days ago

        I first responded before your edit about ssh and localhost, so: yeah, as briefly mentioned in the article, as of today there's no shortcut even for localhost. I was debating whether I should implement this feature before open sourcing it, but I had to draw the line somewhere (I have TONS of ideas what could be implemented), and since reading local logs isn't the primary focus of nerdlog, I decided to skip it for now.

        But yes the bypass for localhost can definitely be implemented.

      • dimonomid a day ago

        Fyi I was going to create a Github issue for the journald support, but apparently someone else filed it first: https://github.com/dimonomid/nerdlog/issues/7

        Just posting it in case you want to subscribe to it. Looks like it's a popular demand indeed, so I'll at least poke it and see what kind of performance we can get out of it.

      • dimonomid 2 days ago

        Yeah you're right, agree with both of your points.

        The `go get` one should be easy to solve though, and my bad for not thinking of it before, thanks. I'll look into it.

        • lenova 2 days ago

          Appreciate your receptiveness, and sorry about all of the edits... I was rethinking my thoughts in real-time ;-)

whalesalad 2 days ago

can't you just read from stdin?

i use lnav in this way all the time: journalctl -f -u service | lnav

this is the ethos of unix tooling

  • dimonomid 2 days ago

    Not really, at least not yet, because nerdlog's focus is very different than that of lnav. There is a section about it in the article as well.

    In fact nerdlog doesn't even support anything like -f (realtime following) yet. The idea to implement it did cross my mind, but I never really needed it in practice, so I figured I'd spend my time on something else. Might do it some day if the demand is popular, but still, nerdlog in general is not about just reading a continuous stream of logs; it's rather about being able to query arbitrary time periods from remote logs, and being very fast at that.