Comment by mmooss

Comment by mmooss 8 days ago

> Mac OS didn't have memory protection

That's true, but that's not the only issue in system design. None were modern OSes.

Most of the rest I think is BS.

> IE was even a hell of a lot more stable (and faster) than Netscape.

Never heard that. What I always heard was that Netscape was the better browser but Microsoft used their Windows monopoly, again, to spread IE - which the US government also convicted them for.

> I put a fresh copy of Redhat on the Internet in 90s and it was p0wned in 5 minutes.

By who? Over your 56K dial-up connection?

wvenable 7 days ago

> What I always heard was that Netscape was the better browser

Netscape was SO bad that they literally threw away all the code to make Firefox. Before IE3, Internet Explorer was not really competitive but with IE3 you could fully use it place of Netscape and it was smaller, faster, and more stable (it was also mostly Spyglass Mosaic). IE4 began the integration with Windows, all of which sucked and nobody used but the browser itself remained solid.

As a developer, IE was also way easier to develop for than Netscape and many things we now take for granted on the web were pioneered by Microsoft in IE. When the browser wars were on, IE was a really good browser and Netscape was stuck with a difficult code base. However, once Netscape was gone Microsoft simply stopped significantly updating IE. It remained almost completely stagnant until Chrome came along and it's from that period onwards that IE gets its bad reputation. I switched to Firefox at version 1.0 and still use it today.

The thing is that Microsoft did, in fact, bundle IE with Windows to try and kill Netscape but that doesn't imply IE was bad at the time. That's the flaw in the logic and where a lot of negative revisionist history comes from. Ironically, today, it would be considered crazy to sell an OS or device without a browser being bundled. And Netscape may have collapsed under it's own weight eventually anyway.

> By who? Over your 56K dial-up connection?

By some automated script over cable internet.

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mmooss 7 days ago

> Netscape was SO bad that they literally threw away all the code to make Firefox.
Nope. Netscape 4 did very well; that's one reason Microsoft used illegal means to compete. But Netscape, in what may be the textbook lesson about starting software projects over, tried to write Netscape 6 from a clean slate. It took much too long (of course) and wasn't released until Netscape was effectively dead.
AOL open-sourced Netscape's source code and from that was born Mozilla. Mozilla's first releases, based on Netscape 6, were Mozilla Suite or later Seamonkey. From what I know, they had generally superior browsers to IE - for example, they had tabbed browsing, popup blocking, and weren't the world's leading vector for attacks (it was before the Gates' Trustworthy Computing memo, which finally focused Microsoft on security).
Mozilla Suite included the browser, email, an HTML/webpage editor, and I think an IRC chat client. It also had seemingly every configuration option any contributor could think of. It was complex and impossible to develop and manage, and far exceeded user needs - most just wanted a web browser. So Mozilla made Firefox, just a web browser, along with the separate Thunderbird, just an email client.

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- wvenable 7 days ago
  
  > Nope. Netscape 4 did very well.
  I didn't say it didn't do well, I said it was a buggy bloated piece of crap. And it was. It was also the de facto way that many small businesses did both web browsing and email but the writing was on the wall. The price of browsers had fallen to zero.
  It's weird arguing about history with someone who wasn't there. I was there. All this software you vague impressions of, I actually used. All of it. All versions of Netscape. All versions of IE (except 1). I still use Thunderbird for email.
  The timeline you have in your head is sort of all over the place. By the time Firefox 1.0 was release IE was already on version 8 and had been around for a decade.
  Firefox was a superior browser but realistically, at that time, browser security wasn't a huge problem. This was still the time of Flash plugins -- which all browsers supported -- but you still weren't p0wned the minute you browsed anywhere.
  
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