Comment by KittenInABox

Comment by KittenInABox 8 days ago

There are US citizens who want to shoot gays, kill people different in creed or heritage, and bomb people for religious reasons. We had the gay panic defense (the legal defense to kill gay people just because you found out they were gay, and the shock justified you killing them). We had people shooting sikhs assuming they're muslim. We had folks bombing abortion clinics. There are US citizens who have done far more, and far worse, than writing an op-ed or taking over a building.

So, frankly, why not treat these people the same we treated like these other folk-- a trial and then appropriate punishment proven in the court of law. If an immigrant is violating the terms of their visa, the US gov't can prove it in their own courts and then deport them appropriately.

nradov 8 days ago

Those situations aren't comparable. While I oppose bigoted behavior by US citizens, for better or worse they have an absolute and inviolable right to remain in this country. Aliens generally have no such right. Entering and remaining in the country is a privilege. I oppose arbitrary arrests and deportations conducted without due process, but in principle there's nothing wrong with holding aliens to a different standard than citizens.

From a political standpoint, why should US citizens pay taxes to educate people who are apparently hostile to our fundamental values?

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kristjansson 8 days ago

> why should US citizens pay taxes to educate people who are apparently hostile to our fundamental values?
Because that's where Americans come from - the educated and acculturated sons and daughters of immigrants who came bearing all manner of prejudice.

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- dgfitz 8 days ago
  
  > Because that's where Americans come from - the educated and acculturated sons and daughters of immigrants who came bearing all manner of prejudice.
  This is a phenomenal example of a non-sequitur argument.
  
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low_tech_love 8 days ago

Are “freedom of speech” and “due process” not American fundamental values? It seems to me that the people hostile to fundamental values are the masked ICE officers kidnapping random, harmless people from the street and moving them to a different state before the judge had the chance to order them to not do that.
Or did Trump add “disregard for human decency” and “imposing widespread fear through arbitrary state violence” to the list of fundamental values with one of his executive decisions?

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rendall 8 days ago

What about is always a bad answer. It comes of a defensive.

Indeed, I agree with you. There are US citizens who want to do reprehensible things, and I still say: maybe the US is not their jam. No, I'm not advocating exile or illegal detention. Just stating a fact.

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reverendsteveii 8 days ago

the whole "not your jam" thing seems to be you retreating to meaninglessness. this isn't a debate about how a person should feel, it's a debate about how a government should act.

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wizzwizz4 8 days ago

When you're talking about due process, "what about these other people who got due process?" is a reasonable response.
Whataboutism would be something like, "what about Nazi Germany, where even more people got sent to foreign prison camps without due process: look, the US isn't so bad!".

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