Comment by CaptWillard 12 days ago
I'm referring to the medicine deployed against a pandemic whose death count is still entirely unknown.
How many people died because of COVID?
You don't know. No one knows.
Meanwhile, everyone who knows better pretends that the most fundamental data about the subject, on top of which all other data and decsions were built ... is garbage.
Interestingly, excess mortality levels continue to remain extremely high - around 10%. [1]
[1] - https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/excess-mortality-p-scores...
Was there another pandemic whose statistics were based on mandatory asymptomatic testing (via PCR tests with deliberately high Ct values)?
Was there another pandemic where 94-95% of all deaths involved at least one comorbidity, and 77% involved three or more underlying conditions?
This dying "of Covid" vs "with Covid" debate has long been debunked: https://www.reuters.com/article/world/fact-check-94-of-indiv...
TLDR: Those comorbidities are often complications caused by Covid in the first place – like pneumonia or respiratory failure. Sometimes they also include risk factors that could never be treated as a direct cause of death on their own, like obesity (which also happens to be extremely widespread in the US so it gets reported on many death certificates for many illnesses, not just Covid).
Pneumonia and respiratory failure are not comorbidities. Those would be the actual cause of death with COVID given the credit for bring them on.
--- Common comorbidities associated with COVID-19 deaths have been well-documented across various studies and data sources, primarily reflecting conditions that increase vulnerability to severe outcomes. Based on extensive data, especially from the U.S. and other heavily impacted regions, the most frequent comorbidities include:
- *Hypertension (High Blood Pressure):* This tops the list in many analyses. In the U.S., CDC data from March to October 2020 showed 56% of adults hospitalized with COVID-19 had hypertension [1], and it’s consistently cited in mortality stats. A New York City study of 5,700 hospitalized patients in early 2020 reported it in 56.6% of cases [2], while globally, a meta-analysis pegged its prevalence at 32% among all COVID-19 patients and 35% in fatal cases [3].
- *Diabetes:* Another major player, often linked to worse outcomes due to impaired immune response and blood sugar control issues. The same NYC study found it in 33.8% of patients [2], and CDC data noted 41% of hospitalized adults had metabolic diseases, including diabetes [4]. Globally, it ranged from 8.2% in China (early 2020 data) to 17.4% across broader reviews, with higher rates (up to 33%) in severe or fatal cases [5].
- *Cardiovascular Disease:* This includes conditions like coronary heart disease and heart failure. It appeared in 11.7% of cases in a 2020 meta-analysis [3] and was notably prevalent in fatal outcomes—26% of 814 COVID-19 deaths in Romania, for instance [6]. In the U.S., myocardial infarction and congestive heart failure were tied to higher mortality odds in a 2020 study of 31,461 patients [7].
- *Obesity:* A significant risk factor, especially in Western populations. The NYC cohort reported it in 41.7% of patients [2], and a 2021 CDC report flagged it as one of the strongest chronic risk factors for COVID-19 death among hospitalized adults, alongside diabetes with complications [8].
- *Chronic Pulmonary Disease:* Conditions like COPD or asthma showed up in 17.5% of U.S. patients in the 2020 Charlson comorbidity study [7] and were linked to higher mortality risk (e.g., HR 2.68 in China’s early data) [9]. Respiratory failure, often a direct result of COVID-19, complicates this category but underscores lung vulnerability.
- *Renal Disease:* Chronic kidney disease was a standout in multiple reviews, with a hazard ratio of 3.48 for death in a UK study [10]. It’s less prevalent overall (0.8% in some global data) but deadly when present, especially in older patients [3].
- *Cancer:* Malignancies, particularly metastatic ones, increased mortality odds (HR 3.50 in China, 2020) [9]. Prevalence was lower (1.5% globally), but the impact was outsized in fatal cases [11].
Other notable mentions include dementia, liver disease (mild to severe), and immunosuppression, though these were less common. Age amplifies these risks—over 65s with comorbidities faced death rates 4 to 10 times higher than those under 40, per UK data from 2021 [12]. Multimorbidity (multiple conditions) was also a game-changer; over half of fatal cases in some studies had two or more comorbidities, with one U.S. analysis noting an average of 2.6 to 4 additional conditions per death [13].
These patterns held steady from 2020 through 2023, with the CDC reporting that 94-95% of U.S. COVID-19 deaths involved comorbidities [14]. The virus didn’t just exploit these conditions—it often triggered acute complications (e.g., pneumonia, ARDS) that were listed alongside chronic issues, muddying the “cause of death” debate. Still, the data’s clear: these comorbidities didn’t just coexist; they stacked the deck against survival.
### References [1] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6943e3.htm [2] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2765184 [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7365650/ [4] https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7010e4.htm [5] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8... [6] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-84705-8 [7] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7439986/ [8] https://www.cdc.gov/pcd/issues/2021/21_0123.htm [9] https://erj.ersjournals.com/content/55/5/2000547 [10] https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1648 [11] https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanonc/article/PIIS1470-2... [12] https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthan... [13] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/health_disparitie... [14] https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm
about 7 million people died of COVID according to the WHO: https://data.who.int/dashboards/covid19/deaths
AFAIK, that number more accurately reflects the number of people who died within two weeks of testing positive using PCR tests at high Ct values (35-45), inflating case counts.
94-95% involved at least one comorbidity.
Over 75% had at least four comorbidities.
From further down the page:
> A COVID-19 death is defined for surveillance purposes as a death resulting from a clinically compatible illness in a probable or confirmed COVID-19 case unless there is a clear alternative cause of death that cannot be related to COVID-19 disease (e.g. trauma). There should be no period of complete recovery between illness and death
It does not include cases like someone dying in a car crash who happened to be COVID-positive.
> It does not include cases like someone dying in a car crash who happened to be COVID-positive.
Maybe not, but it definitely includes millions of elderly or otherwise comorbid subjects who developed pneumonia and never recovered. Sad is it is, that happens year-in and year-out when the initial virus doesn't have a household name.
It also happens with the influenza virus ... except 2020 and 2021, where we had a miraculous reprieve from flu deaths.
This is what statistics is for? We rarely ever “know” (in the sense of your restrictive epistemology) the precise value of ANY demographic measure.
We don’t know how many people live in the United States at any particular moment, but the Census is still useful.
It's useful when done in good faith. During COVID there were numerous decisions that even if not intended to inflate mortality figures, then they did so inadvertently. In particular the CDC gave extremely broad guidance on what to classify as a death "of" COVID, and the government was giving hospitals additional funding per COVID death. So for the most ridiculous example of what this led to, in Florida some guy died in a motorbike crash and ended up getting counted as a COVID death because he also had COVID at the time. [1] He was eventually removed from their death count, but only because that case went viral.
Even in more arguable cases, preexisting conditions and extreme senescence are ubiquitous in deaths "of" COVID, and at this point there's probably no real chance of ever untangling the mess we created and figuring out what happened. For instance Colin Powell died at 84 with terminal cancer, Parkinson's, and a whole host of other health issues. His eventual death was flagged as 'caused by complications of COVID.' I mean maybe it really was, but I think the asterisk you'd put there is quite important when looking at these stats.
[1] - https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/florida-motorcyclist-covid...
I’m neither an epidemiologist nor a statistician (just a mathematician pretending to be a coder and/or butterfly), but I do not believe there are no mathematical tools to mitigate the statistical impact of comorbidities and accidental misreporting.
To contextualize this: my position is “weak signals are possible even with noisy data”; I read your response as “but the data is really noisy,” which, sure, agreed; the user I was responding to seems closer to the solipsistic position “there is effectively no data at all.”
Ah yes, because we don't have the exact numbers your appeal to idiocy must be normalized.
Do you know how many people are saved by antibiotics RIGHT NOW? You don't know?! NO ONE KNOWS!
Give me a break, we don't need to dissect every corpse to see how effective the vaccine is.
Do you think the rough death toll of pandemics are fundamentally unknowable to some approximation? Do you think the massive increase in mortality during the pandemic was a coincidence?