Comment by benoau

Comment by benoau a day ago

It's pretty instinctive to name stuff like this, especially when it's not a general purpose solution like you're not downloading this for any other reason except to build upon what Mermaid does.

They could have called it something entirely different, and then they can say (vscode plugin for mermaid.js) every time they mention their unique name that carries no association with it.

And Mermaid could have decided they want exclusive use of the name and trademarked it half a decade ago.

So it's just fair use, isn't it?

mubou a day ago

The problem is that a lot of people will google mermaid chart, or come across an extension like this, and find a site that looks like the official website and docs but isn't; it's a paid product with no relation that's simply profiting off of the name. That's deceptive, regardless of whether it's "fair use" or not.

Honestly, I'm surprised anyone on HN would defend that sort of behavior.

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knsv a day ago

Hi, I wanted to add some clarification on this topic.
I am Knut Sveidqvist, the inventor of Mermaid and creator of the Mermaid open-source project. I'm also the co-founder of Mermaid Chart.
To address the confusion: Mermaid Chart is not a separate entity "profiting off the name" - it's a commercial offering I created to help sustain the open-source project. Working on Mermaid during evenings and weekends became unsustainable as the project grew. Mermaid Chart allows me to work on what I love full-time while providing resources back to the open-source project. This support will continue to grow as our business matures.
I appreciate your concern about protecting users from deceptive practices. In this case, there is a direct connection between the open-source project and the commercial offering, created by the same founding team.

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- _blk a day ago
  
  Thanks for the clarification! Glad you can cater to both worlds.
  For diagramming and even UI prototyping I keep getting back to plain old ascii drawings though. Asciiflow.com is fantastic. I just wish they had vim keybindings. It's also great to embed in .md too. Could mermaid generate ascii? It just seems easier to comprehend and doesn't need a separate renderer.
  
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  knsv a day ago
  
  No it can not. That's an interesting idea, though, but one would need to navigate/differentiate between the rendered output text and the Mermaid diagram code.
  
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pglevy a day ago

Mermaid.js.org links directly to Mermaid Chart, and there is a blurb on the org site that says, "Mermaid + Mermaid Chart... Mermaid Chart is a major supporter of the Mermaid project."

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- mubou a day ago
  
  Well, at least they're supporting the project and they're ok with it.
  It's not uncommon for companies to piggyback off an open source project's success and mislead people into thinking it's theirs. Seemed an awful lot like that was the case here.
  
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- mackenly a day ago
  
  This. On the Mermaid Chart site they say: "By the creators of Mermaid JS" I don't know the details but assuming they're being truthful, there definitely appears to be a tight relationship.
  
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benoau a day ago

> And Mermaid could have decided they want exclusive use of the name and trademarked it half a decade ago.
If you do not trademark your name then I can only assume you do not want exclusive control of that name - I certainly wouldn't assume you want the protections a trademark grants.

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- mubou a day ago
  
  "You didn't register your trademark, so I guess you don't care if I use it!" Setting aside mermaid here, that line of thinking is not only legally precarious but heavily unethical. In the US at least, trademarks are implicit, like copyright. Registering a trademark can help in court, but it's not required.
  
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  benoau a day ago
  
  I'll cede it might be precarious but the whole point of having trademark protections you apply for is by definition contingent on not having those protections if you don't apply for them. If you don't apply for them and someone else uses the name too why should you care?
  To me it sounds like when open source project resenting a very-permissive license just after someone else turns it into a profit machine. Kind of sucks but also the whole point of that permissive license is you shouldn't care.
  
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robertlagrant a day ago

> Honestly, I'm surprised anyone on HN would defend that sort of behavior.
Saying "that's legal; if they didn't want it to happen they'd have trademarked" is the correct response. We can socially shame a behaviour on a random comment section on the internet, or we can actually provide the solution to all future people: trademark it if you want it.

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