Comment by crazygringo

troupo 8 days ago

> The drained-color thing is exclusive to a certain type of TV/movie drama

It's not. There's even a term coined for it, "intangible sludge". https://www.vox.com/culture/22840526/colors-movies-tv-gray-d...

> I don't like it much but you can also just not watch that stuff.

It's now permeated everything, so it's hard to not watch stuff, as it's everywhere, with few exceptions.

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TeMPOraL 8 days ago

Right. For a long time I wondered what's going on, and eventually started believing it's my fault - that maybe I'm just a rare HDR-poor person watching TV shows on SDR computer displays, maybe I've hit an unusual corner case in the video decoding path, or something. I kept believing that until Star Trek: Picard, Season 3, which made it clear it's not me, it's them.
The whole show, like everything in the past decade or so, was dark and washed out (except for some space FX parts, where at least some colors were saturated, sometimes). This lasted up until the last two episodes, where for plot reasons[0], some protagonists found themselves onboard a ship from TNG-era shows (1980s - 2000s), pulled straight from a museum, which means the set was recreated as it was on old shows, complete with the lighting. From that scene onwards through the final episode, as it jumped between that one special set and every other dark and gray scene, I had proof in front of me that scenes in modern shows can be properly lit, they just aren't, and it's an active choice[1].
Importantly, this scene wasn't a one-off gimmick that risked coming out too bright on normal people's HDR-enabled TV screens. The set involved was, per the showrunner, pretty much the whole raison d'etre for the entire season, and they burned most of the season's budget on perfecting it[2]. Them being able to light it well (and have it coexist with every other badly-lit scene) only proves there's no technical obstacle involved - that dark and washed out TV is just a choice everyone's making for... unclear reasons.
--
[0] - Hard to navigate around a major spoiler and highlight of the era in the franchise.
[1] - Actually, I can't give this scene enough justice. But given how massive moment that was for people following the franchise, I'll just provide a link to the video (SPOILER WARNING): https://youtu.be/t-mY4Xbjyn8?t=42 -- watch in max quality; compare okay-ish exterior CG early on, observe how dark and washed out scenes with people are - and this is literally how the entire season (and really, entire show) was until that point... or just scroll to 2:27, and then on a perfect cue - "computer, lights!" - observe how next 30 seconds reveal that everything could've been properly lit from the start, but for some non-tech reason, it wasn't.
[2] - Most of that was eaten up by casting very specific people, but the set itself was damn expensive too.

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- crazygringo 8 days ago
  
  > that dark and washed out TV is just a choice everyone's making for... unclear reasons.
  It's just a question of aesthetics. TNG was lit almost more like a sitcom, with bright even lighting coming from all directions. In the 1990's, that made TNG look like a TV show, and look very different from dramatic movies.
  Then with the rise of TV as an art form rivaling movies, certain dramatic TV shows have been lit more like dramatic, dark movies. Lots of highlights and shadows, instead of even lightning. It's meant to seem more sophisticated, serious, and artful. It also demands that you be watching in more of a cinema-like environment -- a bright, high-contrast TV in a dark room, so you can see the darks. Not a crappy low-contrast screen in a bright room.
  But again, this is only certain types of shows. Comedies and "lighter" dramas are still lit more like TNG. It really depends on the show, and what mood the creators want to evoke throughout.
  
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  brightlancer 7 days ago
  
  TNG was lit much like other action/adventure shows when it debuted in 1987, e.g. MacGyver, Magnum PI, Simon & Simon, The A-Team (which ended that spring) -- the Bridge and hallways were much brighter than even a sitcom, I'd bet as a specific aesthetic choice of The Future Is Bright.
  When DS9 debuted a few years later, it was stepping into a cultural mindset that had embraced Dark And Gritty in broader entertainment. That series is still much brighter than many shows today, but that's because of a technological revolution (including costs) rather than a change of "TV as an art form rivaling movies".
  Yes, there is a mindset within Hollywood circle(jerk)s that so-dark-I-cannot-see is "more sophisticated, serious, and artful", but viewers broadly think it is idiotic. (Also, 2-and-a-half or 3 hour movie runtimes.)
  
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- djmips 7 days ago
  
  I guess you can justify it by saying starship lightning design has changed over the years hehe. Look at all this bright light fixtures on the bridge of the older ship!
  
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  TeMPOraL 7 days ago
  
  That, and the carpets, yes :). But it still is a solid proof that dark scenes are just a choice - not a limitation of the medium or shooting technique.
  
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crazygringo 8 days ago

> It's not. There's even a term coined for it, "intangible sludge".
It is. The article you link even begins:
> So many TV shows and movies now
That's what I'm taking about. Those "so many" belong mostly to a certain type of drama.
You're not seeing it in comedies. You're not seeing it in reality shows. There are also plenty of dramas that don't have it, possibly a majority but I'm not sure.
It's not everywhere, contrary to what you say. It may, however, seem "everywhere" if you're only watching that type of drama.

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- troupo 7 days ago
  
  > The article you link even begins: "So many TV shows and movies now"
  and from this you somehow deduce "hose "so many" belong mostly to a certain type of drama."
  Where "certain type of drama" is anything from procedurals to action, from drama to fantasy.
  > It may, however, seem "everywhere" if you're only watching that type of drama.
  Where the article uses the following "certain type of drama" examples: Justice League, Dexter. Definitely they both fall into the category of "the same type of drama".
  > You're not seeing it in comedies.
  As in: modern comedies are washed out and desaturated more often than not. For every Barbie there's a dozen Red Notices
  
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  crazygringo 7 days ago
  
  No I'm not deducing anything, I'm speaking from my experience in television.
  Yes, the type of drama does include the range you're describing. Movies are mixes of genres, tones, categories.
  And no, modern comedies are not desaturated "more often than not". I don't know what comedies you're watching, but it's not the case.
  
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lupusreal 8 days ago

> The drained-color thing is exclusive to a certain type of TV/movie drama

You're absolutely wrong, it happened to video games too. The industry defended it by saying it made games look more "realistic", but have since backed off after consumers revolted and dubbed the aesthetic "piss filter."

Started in the mid 00s, went strong for about a decade and still persists to a lesser degree today. Only designers like it, consumers broadly hate it.

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crazygringo 7 days ago

I meant a certain type within TV/movies. As opposed to other types of TV/movies.
I can't speak to video games, but of course it would make sense it would apply to dramatic video games as well.

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