Comment by dijit

Comment by dijit 17 hours ago

11 replies

I would agree with you, but Americans intentionally reinforce car dependence whenever it's discussed.

It's bad enough that even non-US people regurgitate those talking points despite them being significantly less true for them; because they see it so much online.

TulliusCicero 16 hours ago

> I would agree with you, but Americans intentionally reinforce car dependence whenever it's discussed.

They do, because their experience is that transit and biking really do suck and are useless. Which is accurate, for where they've lived.

The problem is that you have to convince people that things could be better, when their lived experience is that it's always terrible.

  • lugu 15 hours ago

    I live in place known for its rainy weather, 15 km from work (because of the housing crisis). Being overweight, biking to work never crossed my mind for two years. Once I tried to commute during weekend, as a challenge. I realized a few things: - same duration as the train - it give me the exercise I needed - it relaxes me - it is free since I already have a bike

    Yes, it still take me 50 min to commute, but now I enjoy it and even volunteerly go to the office more often. It have been 6 months.

    My point is: those who complain about biking being terrible or impractical should give it a real try. It may fit you.

    • TulliusCicero 4 hours ago

      I've biked around in a bunch places in the US, and the reality is that it really is terrible. Bike infrastructure is F-tier almost everywhere, rising to D-Tier in supposedly bike friendly cities like Portland.

      Bike infrastructure generally

      * Is designed to be unsafe. Door zones are common, actual physical protection or segregation is rare, ESPECIALLY for intersections.

      * Stops and starts randomly. Just look at Google maps for a city, you'll be able to see that the bike network is completely fragmented, with many bike lane suddenly disappearing on a road for no apparent reason.

      * Randomly changes style/design principles even within the same city, so both you and drivers are constantly confused unless you're already used to a route.

      * Is poorly enforced, with drivers routinely driving or parking in bike lanes with punishment being a rarity.

      Now, some spots have good bike trails that work for their commute, and that's a great option when it's available. But I'm a bit tired of the "biking is actually okay in the US!" gaslighting.

      Some people still manage, I do sometimes, but after getting hit by cars a couple times I tired of making excuses for it. There's a reason hardly anyone bikes for their commute in the states: overall, biking in the US is simply awful, and that's the truth.

    • AstralStorm 14 hours ago

      And if you need help and can afford it, ebikes exist. Some of them really cheap. Hopefully not skimping on safeties though.

      • TulliusCicero 4 hours ago

        Ebikes are really great and I often ride one to work. They do help with speed, range, motivation, and of course, hills.

        They don't do anything about unsafe infrastructure though, which is by far the US' biggest problem for biking. To say that American bike infrastructure is garbage tier is an insult to garbage, that's how bad it typically is. It's extremely unsafe, and people can feel it, they can tell, hence why hardly anyone actually bikes to work.

  • Fricken 15 hours ago

    I ride a bike, and doing so has saved me about $450k in transportation costs over 3 decades. The effort it takes to earn $450k is something to include amongst the unpleasantries and pathologies associated with driving.

    Now, of course, I've had my whole life to set up my whole life the way I want it, and with a little foresight it really wasn't that difficult to set it up in a way that facilitates getting around on a bicycle. It involved making choices. Choices about where to work and live. If more people made such choices, there would be more options available to facilitate them.

    • TulliusCicero 4 hours ago

      I've ridden bikes for transportation in a handful of regions in the US. It is essentially always bad, it's just a matter of some people being able to look past or tolerate the awfulness.

      Yes, some people are okay sharing a lane with cars, or using a strip of paint for protection, but accepting a poor status quo doesn't stop the status quo from being poor.

      Occasionally there's a route that's legitimately good, almost always due to having an off street trail you can use for the bulk of the commute. Those can be great.

      But once you hit bike lanes in an urban area, it's virtually always terrible. A lot of Americans are just used to the terribleness and don't notice it anymore, the same way they don't notice how almost every neighborhood is designed to be unwalkable (and how most are designed to be economically segregated besides).

    • ben_w 14 hours ago

      450k tax-free, too, because it's a cost saving and those aren't taxable*.

      Myself I've not driven at least since late 2017, thanks to excellent and cheap public transport; even before the Germany-wide €58/month ticket, the more expensive Berlin-AB ticket that I used to get was much much less than your $15k/year.

      Do most people plan like that?

      * usually, though IIRC buying a house in Switzerland gets you a tax equal to the money you saved from not renting it?

      • agentultra 8 hours ago

        We also have a carbon tax where I’m from. Since I don’t own a car I don’t pay much into it. However I get a nice big rebate on my tax return. I basically get paid a small amount to not own a car.

  • ben_w 15 hours ago

    > The problem is that you have to convince people that things could be better, when their lived experience is that it's always terrible.

    Ironically, international air travel to places where it works great may help with this.

    • TulliusCicero 4 hours ago

      For some people yes.

      But a lot of people are mentally stubborn, and seem to have inbuilt excuses of, "it wouldn't work here!" despite not spending even ten seconds thinking about it.