Comment by lynndotpy

Comment by lynndotpy 2 months ago

13 replies

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I don't create for TikTok, I have never had a TikTok account, and I don't use TikTok, outside of being exposed to videos on other sites, or occasionally clicking a link.

I had been exposed to DouYin before, but my first experience of TikTok in real life was someone at a party, holding their phone, exclaiming something along the lines of "I can't look away, it's so addictive." It was uncomfortable, and I'm aware of how fake this sounds, but it happened.

But I think this is very bad.

With Section 230 in crosshairs, EARN IT being reintroduced every year or two, and access to books and sites being fragmented across the US, things are very already bad, and have the potential to get much worse. TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship.

Congress didn't just "ban TikTok", Congress banned its first social media. This is case law, this is precedent, this is a path for banning other social media apps.

I think this is bad because I think this is the start of something new and something bad for the internet.

esperent 2 months ago

> TikTok being banned is censorship, and presents a significant delta towards more censorship

I don't see it that way. I'm not American and I've never used TikTok.

I don't see any censorship here.

This is more of an ongoing power struggle between the US and China, tit for tat after they banned American apps.

Censorship would mean that they're banning actual content. That's not what's happening here. Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it.

Banning a platform is not censorship. It's like banning a book publishing house but allowing any other publisher to continue publishing their books.

It does appear that there is actual censorship, in the form of book banning, happening in several US states recently. But this ain't that.

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  • _factor 2 months ago

    I’m shutting down the film festival and reserve the right to shut down all future film festivals with this precedent. I’m not censoring you, of course. You’re free to assemble in the local Hollywood studio.

    Sounds a lot like censorship lite before the full fledged version ships.

    Reply View 1 reply
    • pixl97 2 months ago

      All film festivals from China, you're free to have them (almost) anywhere else.

      Reply View 0 replies
  • starfezzy 2 months ago

    > Any of the short form videos from TikTok can be hosted on several other video platforms, if the creators care to upload it.

    Sure, you can repost TikTok content anywhere, but what people really notice when they recognize that tiktok's algorithm is unique—without realizing it—is that it's apolitical by default, and not-western when politics come into play. It actually shows you what you're interested in, instead of force-feeding western progressive/consumerist messaging and banning half its users for wrongthink.

    So yeah, post the same content on Reels/Shorts if you want, but if it doesn't align with the western narrative, good luck with the shadowbans and downranking.

    Reply View 6 replies
    • Andrex 2 months ago

      The algorithm's advantage could disappear in an instant. It is not a real moat, and if TikTok weren't banned I definitely think we'd see that play out in the next 2 years.

      Reply View 3 replies
      • fakedang 2 months ago

        LoL, the algorithm is the only reason TikTok was able to dethrone both Meta and Alphabet in short form content (also Snap but who gives a damn about that loser).

        TikTok even put their algorithm workings out there in the internet, as part of public presentations, yet Google and Facebook being unable to replicate something that's anywhere close to performant compared to TikTok is evidence of the moat ByteDance has.

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    • esperent 2 months ago

      Algorithmic content, and how that can be used to shape a chosen narrative, is an important issue. However, it's much more closely related to propaganda rather than censorship.

      Reply View 1 reply
      • starfezzy 2 months ago

        Of course, yes.

        The west is committed to their own propaganda narrative, which explains the tiktok ban and the "inability" (unwillingness, really) to replicate the algorithm.

        I'm not saying china is perfect. They do their own propaganda and narrative control. The west trying quite successfully to replicate THAT algorithm—authoritarianism and narrative control, corporations acting as arms of the state propaganda agencies, etc.

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Andrex 2 months ago

What's being targeted is TikTok's algorithm. User's videos are still legal US speech and can be posted and shared freely.

The specific rationale upheld by SCOTUS and unenumerated in the law itself (it's only like two sentences, I would recommend just reading it) was based on national security concerns and level of scrutiny.

TikTok failed the criteria. US companies do not, and laws to ban them would have to use entirely separate methods which would face a far tougher SCOTUS test. (It's not like the Justices are falling over themselves to always agree on things, especially the current court.)

Banning US companies is just politically infeasible. But the Chinese issue is pretty bipartisan (right now).

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  • lynndotpy 2 months ago

    > User's videos are still legal US speech and can be posted and shared freely.

    Sure, but removing the platform still removes speech. This relies on all of the people saving and re-uploading their videos.

    Imagine a scenario where you needed government and regulatory approval to create a new website. HackerNews, personal websites, etc. were all banned. Would it be okay, since you could repost all your comments and threads onto Facebook?

    > Banning US companies is just politically infeasible. But the Chinese issue is pretty bipartisan (right now).

    FOSTA and SESTA impacted US companies. It leakd to increased censorship on practically every social media platform.

    The EARN IT Act is still a threat (unless Salt Typhoon, ironically, provided the proof necessary to show how vital e2ee is). It has also enjoyed bipartisan support, and backdooring encryption is harmful and does constitute censorship.

    While I agree the legal specifics of the TikTok ban are meant to target TikTok, the political apparatus has been proven. Congress banning apps has been normalized.

    No matter how you cut it, this is another big loss for the free and open internet, at a time when wins are far and few between.

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