Comment by ppqqrr

That covers the China side of things. Presumably America is doing nothing against China. In that case things would be very lopsided and you (in general) would have a reason to be concerned. On the other hand if America was doing “adversarial” things in the direction of China as well, and both sides at sufficiently low intensity, it could still be argued that the two countries are not playing a zero-sum game overall because trade etc. happens in spite of all that.

You complain about "whataboutism," but your comment is just a long list of, "But what about this bad thing China did?"

Yet when other people point out much more horrible things the US has done in the same timeframe (like backing Israel to the hilt as it kills tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians and destroys the entire Gaza strip), you respond with, "That's Whataboutism."

The fact that they're using whataboutism should point to you that these posters very much are the adversaries of America that the poster is talking about. They are certainly not acting in your interests here.

if you reread your post, looking for whatabboutism, each critique you provide could be described as such in response to "we're great trading partners and will continue to be"

why are these whatabboutisms interesting but others are not? what makes you comfortable with working with americans, when its clear how they treat expat political dissidents like Assange and Snowden? why are you ok working with the US who's military is tuned for seizing iranian oil shipments? why are you favourable to a US reserve currency when the US has been abusing its power by putting all kinds of unilateral sanctions, and confiscating reserves without any due process? its not just china thats trying to make a new reserve currency, the EU does too, so they can buy iranian oil.

minus all the whatabboutisms, america and china exchanged ~$750B worth of goods and services in 2022, with neither's trangressions being a blocker. Americans by and large care much more about the cost and variety of goods than they do about fishing rights in the south china sea. americans dont care that much about US foreign policy goals, compared to shopping and culture.

Have you been to China? Know anyone from there? Or is your opinion on what they deserve based entirely on TV headlines? Do you relate to them as humans? That’s what I need to see before I take anyone’s condemnation of any group of people seriously.

I’m disputing none of the facts you raise, I just don’t think it’s reason enough to label the entire country as an enemy state and shut the door like a petulant child. Especially in light of the horrifying atrocities that we ourselves are funding.

> I'd love to visit but unfortunately it's my understanding that I'd have to install tracking software on my phone and check in with police every step of the way.

Uh, what? I've never encountered this in my trips to China.

You do have an ID scanned (like literally, on a photocopier) when you check into a hotel.

Or the US is preparing for conflict with China, so China must also. But actually it's probably a two way feedback loop between the two of them that the ignoramuses that run each country love because it makes their jobs exciting and, probably, profitable.

How does banning TikTok defend Taiwan?

I do not dispute it (in fact if you have good sources on the latest goings-on about this issue I’d appreciate it). But to say that it’s cause enough to excommunicate the CCP and go to war… is hypocrisy of the highest order, when we ourselves clearly fund and condone massive atrocities as long as it’s someone else’s hands. Road to peace is not paved with blood, do not be confused. Peace comes from boring communication work: talking, arguing, hashing the problems out, day in and day out. Shutting the door is the first step to a tragedy, always.

Yes, I dispute, because all of that are lies and brainwashing done by USA government. Please show prove of 1 million Uyghur locked up in China, genocide. Or you should apologize for your lies to the world. You say there is genocide in 2018, now is 2024, where is the bodies, people desperate to escape? Ur ambassador to China spent his time riding on Chinese bullet trains funded by Chinese government and vacation in the country, instead of going to Xinjiang and rescue all the 1M Uyghur people locked up camps?? What is your military doing? Should you save these poor people? Xinjiang is free for anyone to travel. People are allowed to freely leave and enter with all its neighboring countries. And USA say they love the Uyghur people, and the way they show their support is ban all the products, every single one, made by Uyghur people? Lol, you are not fooling anyone here. It is a fact Uyghur people can freely leave China if they want. And it is a fact, Uyghur population increasing faster than the broader population. And u can travel in Xinjiang today, there is Uyghur language everywhere, on shops, street signs. Uyghur language is taught in every government funded schools. Did the American boarding schools for native Americans teach their own language? Today, Uyghur kids are running in the streets, freely, speaking in Uyghur. Why don't you get all the countries you listed to form coalition army to save the poor Uyghur souls? Your government officials should not shake Chinese government official hands and travel on Chinese government trains to vacation in the country. No more talking, only action.

My person in deity do I need to go down the list of genocides and atrocities the US has either participated in or funded in its long and bloodsoaked history? It's a long list but it ends with the billions of dollars in weapons, aid and personnel we sent to help Israel try to wipe out the Palestinians.

This isn't an attempt at whataboutism here, no one is denying that what China is doing to the Uyghurs is terrible, but the US and its allies have no moral high ground to stand on at all in this regard.

It's always very interesting to see people pull out threads with low like counts (like 12k) and claim that central idea of the post is widely held.

We're talking about platforms with tens of millions of users; wide appeal is at least a quarter million likes, with mass appeal being at least a million. A local-scale influencer can gather 10-30k likes very easily on such a massive platform.

bro literally citing chinese facebook comments ;) if you started taking pissed off internet comments seriously we'd have to go to war with every country in the world

look man, i'm not saying china is some heavenly force of justice. but the thing about peace is that it's bigger than both sides, and it's maintained by the grace of those who understand that often the real threat isn't the enemy, it's your fear of the enemy.

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