Comment by iugtmkbdfil834 2 days ago
Friend. I do not worry. I dislike all social media and would not shed one tear if all those were dismantled.
What I shed a tear for is slow decline of US and its founding principles, because George Carlin clearly was right. Even if you barely pay attention, the list your your temporary privileges is slowly getting shorter.
edit: Even the fact that I have to explain it at such a basic level is tremendously sad.
<< It's just some company and we can choose to allow it to operate here or not as a society.
That is some mighty slippery slope you are on friend. You sure you are ok with this one company being singled out and exceptions slowly applied to the first amendment? Make no mistake. This, at best, is just a temporary pitstop, because, as time progresses, more and more will chosen to be 'disfavored'/'disallowed' ( I have no way of knowing what euphemism will be used to describe it ) to operate in society. Should be fun.
<< If we were talking about banning all social media, I think you'd be able to make a stronger 1st Amendment case.
We are talking about TikTok, but I am arguing that singling one company out effectively undermines 1st amendment. You may be right about strengthtening the case. I am not able to properly judge that.
<< Instead, we've passed a law through Congress to restrict a foreign business from operating in the United States.
Sure, but the restriction does not seem to apply to other market contestants. Meta and MS do the same things ( but for US ) and yet do not seem to be penalized.
<< Just because TikTok allows people to share memes better doesn't make it a free speech platform.
Just because you consider it a useless meme, does not make it not speech. There is a reason why the saying goes 'a picture is worth a thousand words'.
TikTok is a foreign company that was given permission to operate in the United States.
We give and take permission from foreign companies to operate here all the time and it's not a conflict with our Constitution.
Let's take American sanctions, for example.
Are you going to argue that Russia's Gazprom's right to free speech is stifled too? Or do they just have to create a Gazprom social media app so they can become a free speech platform and now "sorry 1st Amendment can't do anything"? Can Iran open up an office in San Francisco and create an app and share a few videos and then share tips for making bombs and encourage Americans to not take vaccines and not send their kids to school and to eat laundry detergent pods?
This doesn't justify one way or the other any other tech company's behavior, but if they are an American company owned by Americans the rules always have been and always will be different (as they should be).
> Make no mistake. This, at best, is just a temporary pitstop, because, as time progresses, more and more will chosen to be 'disfavored'/'disallowed' ( I have no way of knowing what euphemism will be used to describe it ) to operate in society. Should be fun.
We can just ban any foreign owned social media company from operating in the United States. But I don't think you are wrong. Americans (and people around the globe) are extremely addicted to social media and whether that's Meta or TikTok they'll find a way to feed that addiction even as it damages their mind. I think it would be good to ban all social media across the globe. We'd all be more free and better off for it.
Hmm.
I am in a pickle, because I do not think I can comment on those hypotheticals without going down a deep rabbit hole. Fwiw, sanctions is not a bad counter-argument regardless of my biased view of those.
<< Are you going to argue that Russia's Gazprom's right to free speech is stifled too?
Hardly an issue given that they do not operate in space that publishes American's thoughts.
<< Or do they just have to create a Gazprom social media app so they can become a free speech platform and now "sorry 1st Amendment can't do anything"? Can Iran open up an office in San Francisco and create an app and share a few videos and then share tips for making bombs and encourage Americans to not take vaccines and not send their kids to school and to eat laundry detergent pods?
Now those are good questions, but how are those videos that different than what can be found on 4chan daily? Apart from everything else, it makes source easier to identify..
<< This doesn't justify one way or the other any other tech company's behavior, but if they are an American company owned by Americans the rules always have been and always will be different (as they should be).
Hard disagree, but I accept that this is where we both can be reasonably at odds. I accept there are pragmatic benefits to your approach.
<< We can just ban any foreign owned social media company from operating in the United States.
I mean yes, clearly based on the fact that TikTok was just banned.
<< Americans (and people around the globe) are extremely addicted to social media and whether that's Meta or TikTok they'll find a way to feed that addiction even as it damages their mind.
I think you are right about the addiction, but I am not sure if you are right about the action taken as a result of that addiction.
<< I think it would be good to ban all social media across the globe. We'd all be more free and better off for it.
Here we are aligned.
***********
Thank you for this exchange. It is why I come to HN. I have a long day ahead so I might not be able to respond more timely from this point forward today.
I understand your discussion points, I just disagree with them. If we were talking about banning all social media, I think you'd be able to make a stronger 1st Amendment case.
Instead, we've passed a law through Congress to restrict a foreign business from operating in the United States. We do this all the time, and have from the start of our history. Such actions were supported by the founders and are legally consistent. Just because TikTok allows people to share memes better doesn't make it a free speech platform. It's just some company and we can choose to allow it to operate here or not as a society.