Comment by bitpush a day ago
Lots of big claims, including bashing React and this seems to be a framework to build static sites, like blog posts with little to no reactivity?
Also, kinda silly to "appeal to authority" by invoking Dieter Rams. I understand that the author was inspired by Rams work, but this is akin to saying "My new framework is Iron Maiden" because I happen to really like maiden.
And a lot of that bashing comes from people who don't understand React or the ecosystem it's part of.
That feels more like bashing Redux or one of the state management libraries. That's where I've seen a lot of complexity sneak in.
The only similarity is that it is/was popular to bash both. The reasons for bashing and utility of each are vastly different.
(replying to self)
I just checked out the demo site, and now I'm question their design choices as well.
https://simple-blog.nuejs.org/
Nue claims to be minimalist and an outright rejection of everything that is bloated. And yet, this simple page has an obnoxious blur. I get that it kinda looks nice on first load, but click around - the blur happens on each navigation.
This screams form over function if anything.
I believe the "obnoxious blur" is a common view transition API animation [1]. Astro uses similar as a default [2].
1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/View_Transi...
2. https://docs.astro.build/en/guides/view-transitions/#built-i...
Astro uses a crossfade as the default view transition, as is described in the docs you linked, it doesn't use any blur.
I haven't seen `filter: blur` used for view transitions before, wouldn't personally call it obnoxious, but to each their own.
I think as long as prefers-reduced-motion is respected, its' fair game.
I stand corrected--didn't notice at first. I do prefer the crossfade, admittedly.
(replying to self)
I looked at the code, and I'm finding it very hard to take them seriously.
https://github.com/nuejs/nue/blob/4ed9b628f9f307f19bd6dd4d09...
This almost feels like someone taking on a challenge to create a toy framework themselves.
--
While we're at it, since the author wanted to poo-poo tailwind. Com'on https://github.com/nuejs/nue/blob/4ed9b628f9f307f19bd6dd4d09...
Check out the Development Philosophy section on our contribution guidelines to understand the difference on Nue's coding style:
https://github.com/nuejs/nue/blob/master/CONTRIBUTING.md#dev...
NOTE: the document was just updated to match this concern
You're right - I should have been upfront about the documentation update. However, the point about "Less is More" being a fundamental coding philosophy was an important addition that better articulates how this principle shapes the entire framework. Next time, I'll be explicit. Thanks.
Please dial back the attacks. This is not an interrogation scene in a crime drama.
Yeah, I was expecting something bigger and more explicit when he went after tailwind. Instead, the author just re-hashed older design patterns (MVC and semantic html decorations from css) without providing context add to when and why you would prefer the older patterns over newer ones. I've been building since the jQuery days, and I totally agree that there are a lot of challenges that people tend to forget from that time. Decoupling html from css just didn't provide much value, but it did create a lot of bike shedding.
I really like how htmx has handled explaining their architectural trade offs. They're very clear about the kind of problem they're solving, how they're solving it, and when/why their solution is better.
This post just has "get off my lawn" vibes without a ton of substance
The _why_ is extensively documented. See:
Also FAQ:
This blog is for introducing people to Nue's development model rather than a guide to minimalistic design. See
I like the blur, actually. Well, not that much - it's too much blur.
But I definitely don't like that on top of the blur effect there are scaling animations for each element. I shouldn't be saying this as I'm guilty myself of doing silly things for page transitions in my portfolio, but am working on that.
Agreed - I read the whole thing and I'm not sure what this even is. I guess an SSG and with a design system? If so, all the React bashing comes off like "airplanes are too complicated these days, check out this bicycle".
Edit: after checking the code samples, this looks a lot like svelte (pre-runes). So, single file components with templating with reactivity. I didn't get that at all from TFA..
Nue is currently mostly just for static sites, but as the article states the development is building towards single-page applications too, keeping the idea of separation of concerns at core.
For reactivity, Nue's client-side library provides the same capabilities as React (components, loops, state updates) in just 2.5kb through HTML-based syntax. But crucially, this interactivity is added to semantic content rather than replacing it.
The critique of React is best explained in this document:
Coupling content, styling and behavior into JavaScript components can easily turn into hard-to-read code that compounds over time. Nue proves you can build more sophisticated interfaces through web standards while keeping codebases lean and maintainable.
Bashing react today is like bashing Java in ~2010.
There are some valid criticisms of react but a lot of them want to throw the baby out with the bathwater, much like with many other mature technologies.
I celebrate people who can produce something innovative in the web development world, but at least produce something before making these grand claims while bashing what came before. Those abstractions are there for good reasons!