Comment by mcswell

Comment by mcswell 2 months ago

5 replies

Then substitute one of my drawings (or paintings, if I painted) of a person. There's no way in the world that anyone--anyone!--would think mine were better. That's because mine are truly awful.

bccdee 2 months ago

Even then, that's just an opinion that everyone shares. Objectivity isn't when everyone's subjective experiences align—it's when something exists independent of any subjective experience. If there were no humans at all, "beauty" would be meaningless. It's an inherently subjective property which humans ascribe to objects. Conversely, the Earth would still orbit the Sun, because gravity is objective.

  • ericmay 2 months ago

    In the same way I can state as an objective fact that Patrick Mahomes is way better than either of us at being a quarterback, I can say that any painting I've ever done isn't as good as the Mona Lisa.

    • bccdee 2 months ago

      A better quarterback wins games. What does a better painting do—win art contests? Judged by what objective criteria? Art doesn't have rules the way football does. A painting can't "win at being art"; each individual audience member either likes it or they don't.

      • ericmay 2 months ago

        > A better quarterback wins games.

        Well, no, a better quarterback is just a member of a team. They don't dictate whether the team wins or not, they just contribute to it if they are good. Though we can't say whether a given quarterback is good or not because we don't have objective criteria to determine that. It's all relative and arbitrary - as I'm sure you'd agree with.

        > What does a better painting do—win art contests?

        Maybe? Why not?

        > Judged by what objective criteria? Art doesn't have rules the way football does.

        Football rules are arbitrary criteria, not objective.

        > A painting can't "win at being art";

        Why not? The Mona Lisa has the most viewers so maybe that means it is the best art?

        • bobbylox a month ago

          There are many artists whose work was 'objectively' (that is, by consensus) bad until later when it became objectively good.