Comment by paxys

Comment by paxys 3 days ago

20 replies

Getting out while they are ahead is a smart move, especially considering multiple governments have started to take a closer look at their shorting tactics.

CyberDildonics 3 days ago

Their "shorting tactics" ? You mean doing extensive well sourced research that convinces other people that their position is correct?

  • aprilthird2021 3 days ago

    I'm assuming when he says "governments taking a look at" he means like the Indian government and it's more of a Mafia-type "taking a look at" than a serious inquiry with any actual merit. A strongarm type thing

    • Over2Chars 3 days ago

      I think its brought attention to numerous cases of accounting and other shenanigans.

      What I've noticed, casually, is that they often target companies or management with a pattern of fraud and abuse, and surprise they keep doing it.

      VP of Sales gets slapped on the wrist for illegal tactics?

      A few years later he goes on to be promoted to CEO and.... does the same thing!

      Amazing.

      • addicted 3 days ago

        I’m interested in the materials they open source.

        I wouldn’t be surprised if the sum of it is “has the company been caught doing fraud more than once and haven’t been shut down? They’re still doing fraud”.

        • Over2Chars 2 days ago

          I doubt that's the whole of it, but I'm sure a past pattern definitely comes into play. As someone once said, we are faithfully true to our defects - we tend to repeat our mistakes.

          Someone who plays fast and loose with the law to get their sales bonus doesn't just find Jesus and give up one day. More likely he gets promoted and does it all over again.

          But some of the short seller research I've heard of like interviewing ex-employees about internal irregularities is quite clever.

          In another case (I think it was a different short seller) he went to the actual physical locations declared on paperwork as "offices" and found them to be empty warehouses.

          So this kind of interviewing and boots on ground stuff is next level.

    • rajup 3 days ago

      Pretty big allegations without any source.

      • throw101010qwe 3 days ago

        But the Indian regulator was going after the short seller suggesting they used non public info. Turns out India is corrupt which we already knew as a fact and one of the chiefs owned the stock.

      • addicted 3 days ago

        The source is their research. Much of which was publicly available.

        You can draw your own conclusions but a company worth hundreds of billions of dollars being audited by a mom and pop shop is more evidence than anyone needs that their books are made up.

        The fact that the Adani group couldn’t refute any of their claims was pretty telling as well.

  • adastra22 3 days ago

    They interview people involved with these companies, then based on these interviews write report that is privately distributed and take out coordinated short positions.

    That’s almost the definition of insider trading. Almost. Now afaik what they are doing is nominally above board, but they are walking a very fine line.

    In less than a week a president will take power whose chief advisor has a really big grudge against short sellers.

    Getting out now is on point for Hindenburg.

hiyer 3 days ago

I wouldn't say they were ahead at least in terms of reputation. They targeted India's Adani group and failed. The Supermicro "revelation" was also a damp squib. I suppose they made plenty of money with their short-selling though, so in that sense they are, perhaps, ahead enough.

  • fakedang 2 days ago

    Only failed Adani because they misunderstood how deep the Indian government would go to join in the cover-up, instead of actually investigating it.

    The Big 4 auditor for Supermicro literally quit, citing concerns. It's the SEC's job to do the investigating (and it's failed badly and likely to fail more with the coming admin).

    • mkagenius 2 days ago

      I wouldn't be surprised if Adani just asked "How much money will you make in your life time?" And just offered the same to close the firm.

      • fakedang 2 days ago

        He might have offered, but doubt these guys would have taken it up.

        There's something different about these short sellers and the typical ones we've had in the past (Soros, Chanos, Ackman, etc.).

        • mkagenius a day ago

          Yes, doubtful with the US investigation going on on Adani.

  • omcnoe 3 days ago

    Supermicro stock is down 40% from the publishing of the report, hardly a damp squib.

  • jojobas 3 days ago

    Looks like the jury is still out on Adani.

arrowsmith 3 days ago

Can someone give me the context please? I’ve never heard of this organisation before. What do they do and what are they known for?