Comment by Validark

Comment by Validark 3 days ago

From the Readme:

"Unsafe code Ropey uses unsafe code to help achieve some of its space and performance characteristics. Although effort has been put into keeping the unsafe code compartmentalized and making it correct, please be cautious about using Ropey in software that may face adversarial conditions.

Auditing, fuzzing, etc. of the unsafe code in Ropey is extremely welcome. If you find any unsoundness, please file an issue! Also welcome are recommendations for how to remove any of the unsafe code without introducing significant space or performance regressions, or how to compartmentalize the unsafe code even better."

rendaw 3 days ago

I assume your commentary is that this is bad, but I'd like to know why. I see this criticism thrown at lots of libraries.

All safe code in rust is built on unsafe code. The standard library is full of unsafe code. The purpose of `unsafe` is to encourage that dangerous things are safely wrapped. In business logic I'd question using unsafe code directly, but in a performance critical low level memory management library that's exactly where I'd expect to see it.

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judofyr 2 days ago

> The standard library is full of unsafe code.
Yes, and this means that for me to trust that the code is memory safe I need to trust the people who develop the standard library (or validate the unsafe usage myself). Rust has a good track record and a very good review process to ensure correctness of their "unsafe" block.
This library however? Do they know how to write "unsafe" blocks? I don't know! Maybe? If there were zero uses of "unsafe" in this library I would be able to adopt it without worrying about memory safety at all. In addition, I'm not that good at knowing whether an "unsafe" block is safe myself. It's not like I can review this cases myself and be confident.
(Memory safety is of course not everything, but bugs related to memory safety are much more annoying than other types of bugs.)

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p-e-w 3 days ago

That's such a weird disclaimer, considering that an overwhelming majority of mission-critical software is written entirely in "unsafe" code (that is, C/C++).

"Please be cautious about using Linux/macOS/Windows/Firefox/Chrome/Safari in adversarial conditions." I've never read a statement like that, even though it would be more warranted than in this case.

And even unsafe Rust is far safer than C and C++. It still provides automatic memory management by default, the thread safety guarantees that come with ownership, and abstraction mechanics that make it harder to commit blunders that can lead to unsafety.

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oguz-ismail 3 days ago

Those are well-established languages. Rust's only selling point is its alleged safety

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- johannes1234321 3 days ago
  
  Marking code as unsafe in Rust is the escape hatch to do optimisations and reaching out to other systems. It draws the attention to that area for audits and allows building safer stuff atop.
  In another language, like C, you can have a good structure and well organized attractions, but you have your "unsafe" potentially sprinkled all over.
  
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- p-e-w 3 days ago
  
  Rust is pretty well-established now, being used in production by companies like Amazon. Safety is most certainly not its "only selling point". And the underlying mechanisms have been evaluated in detail by many researchers, both theoretically and practically, so labeling it as "alleged safety" is disingenuous.
  
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