Comment by gigatree

Comment by gigatree 3 days ago

> But that's not how things end up happening, because other forces are at play.

Is it really not how things end up happening? We must be living in two different realities. The greater the power, the higher the likelihood it becomes corrupted. With such a high incentive to give into corruption, you can’t just hand-wave it away with “but I’m sure it gets balanced out by something”. Your local family doctor might be a good enough person to help you get better without expensive drugs, but the head of a large institution? Fat chance.

hakunin 3 days ago

That feeling you just expressed of higher trust to your local doctor than to a head of a large institution: it came from having a pretty good idea what your local doctor does, and no idea what a head of an institution does. The growing problem with cynicism in our society is not because there's evidence of corruption, it's because nobody knows how anything works, but everybody gets fed "look at these bad incentives" by pundits (especially alternative media ones) all day. Everything is complex. Just because it is doesn't make it nefarious.

An institution's whole point is to be a system where you don't have to trust individuals. It's a way to deal with complex nature of our reality. People should really learn what institutions are, how they function, what accountability mechanisms they contain, instead of blaming them based on conjecture. "Look, this bad thing happened. And this person has this bad incentive. Now we know the whole story." We don't.

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gigatree 3 days ago

No not really, trust in my local doctor comes from having a personal relationship with him and trusting his character enough to trust his word. There are things that are going to be beyond my understanding, but if I can trust his character enough to believe he’d rather see me healthy even at the expense of a bigger paycheck, then I’ll do it. How people place that same trust in faceless institutions is beyond me. Again - what forces exist to prevent them from being corrupted? Absolutely the growing cynicism in institutions is because of evidence of corruption. We gave them undeserved trust, they abused it, and now we see the effect of that.

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- hakunin 3 days ago
  
  I think relying on your judgement of character to determine trust is a decent tactic in personal life and interactions, but it doesn't work at scale.
  People place trust in faceless institutions all the time. That's why you sit in a box that produces about 50 explosions per second when you drive a car. I don't think you would've gained much by being comfortable with the character of your car designer. If you think building cars is complex, laws and regulations are just as complex. And it takes teams of lawyers, hundreds of pages of documents, and a lot of data to figure out what makes sense. But it's easy to armchair-judge all of that as "just some faceless institution".
  > what forces exist to prevent them from being corrupted?
  Why are you right now not stealing from your work, or vulnerable people around you? Why are you not trying to screw over everybody you meet? Those forces and more. There's a lot of scrutiny built into most institutions.
  > the growing cynicism in institutions is because of evidence of corruption
  I don't think we use the word "evidence" the same way. Having perverse incentives is not evidence.
  
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- op00to 3 days ago
  
  Someone you have a personal relationship with and that you trust your character never crossed you? Never fucked you over? Never pulled a fast one? Never lied? You’re either gullible or incredibly lucky.
  
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