Comment by dhc02

Comment by dhc02 4 days ago

I have been coming around to the idea that we should ban all* algorithmic content surfacing.

It's taken a while, but the longer we go down this path, the more clear it seems that it is impossible to design a content algorithm that does not have significant negative cultural side effects. This is not to say that content algorithms don't have benefits; they do. It's just that they can't be useful (i.e., designed to optimize for some profitable metric) without causing harm.

I think something like asbestos is a good metaphor: Extremely useful, but the long-term risks outweigh any possible gains.

mandmandam 4 days ago

> It's just that they can't be useful (i.e., designed to optimize for some profitable metric) without causing harm.

That's not the pattern I've seen, as close as you are to it.

I've seen lots of platforms be wildly useful. Digg was good for a while; StumpleUpon, Pinterest, Instagram, TikTok, Twitter, Reddit and even Facebook all had periods at the start where they added real value to people's lives.

At some point they start to "optimize for some profitable metric" - and quickly become heinous.

The problem isn't the algorithm; it's that it gets twisted toward profit. And that's basically a tautology - once you start trying to suck money out of the equation for yourself, that juice has to come from somewhere.

I can envision a platform that isn't based on profit being far more useful than harmful - if it can only ward off the manipulations of the yacht class.

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S_Bear 4 days ago

Reddit is still extremely valuable if you curate it heavily. My entire feed is my narrow interests and passions (though I still use old.reddit, which helps. The minute that's gone, I probably am too)

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unsui 4 days ago

> if it can only ward off the manipulations of the yacht class.
The inevitable enshittification of goods and services once they reach a certain level of maturity (i.e., profitability) basically guarantees that the yachted-classes will be involved.
Given this de-facto inevitability, the original premise (that algorithmic content is eventually a bad thing) makes more sense

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- mandmandam 4 days ago
  
  It's not inevitable though.
  Emails, torrents, Mastodon, VLC, Blender, Linux - They're all either solid, or even getting better over time.
  Why? Because the capital class were explicitly denied, by design or by principle.
  Like with healthcare, transport, post services, housing, and much else, there's simply areas where the public good is too important to give the profit motive too strong a foothold. I believe social media is one of those areas.
  
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