Comment by ergonaught 4 days ago
US citizens do not want this.
Every news article descending into tangents on any other point than that is part of why we can't have nice things.
The whole country has turned into some sort of lower primate improv troupe where whatever stupid thing comes up gets a "Yes and let's" diversion instead of an adult in the room standing up and cutting the crap.
If we don't want this then we simply won't make an account on those platforms...
YOU want this ban and you don't like that OTHER PEOPLE like TikTok. Clearly you don't have a TikTok account and that's not enough. You want to make sure no one else is allowed to have a TikTok account either
Instead of spreading the message about possible harms you'd rather ban other people's abilities
> foreign ownership alone isn't a sound reason for a ban
You're right -- but foreign ownership by a repressive regime with undemocratic ideals certainly is. For example, I don't think anyone would be too concerned if a European country was the one that founded & owned TikTok.
> US citizens do not want this
Ha ha, I guess you are discovering, many many people do want this.
No one who actually uses it or understands it wants this. This is like vegans banning steak.
It's like the non-addicts banning heroin. You don't have to be a Tik Tok user to understand that it's bad for it to be PRC-controlled!
I'd rather be able to choose to consume propaganda than for than the government to be able to decide what I should and should not consume.
That is a fine take, but the assumption that all other forms of media masses of people are exposed to aren’t also propaganda is a foolish one to make. We have an entire advertising industry in this country. Something like $300 billion in ad spend a year in the US. Ad spend is literally propaganda lest we forget.
Why is it bad when China (supposedly) creates propaganda on tiktok but it’s good when the US creates propaganda on facebook?
You’re not a government, you’re a person. Either way you’re being manipulated, and the US government definitely doesn’t have your best interests in mind.
You're getting it. It is like vegans banning steak!
> "lower primate improv troupe"
> "No one who actually uses it or understands it wants this."
"Everyone's generalizations are stupid, except mine."
The users for sure don't want this. Among non-users, I'd say there's a sizable difference (let's say 50/50)...
Many things aren't that democratic when you look at it like that!
US citizens elected representatives to make laws for them. Even more so, this is a bipartisan law.
Tiktok US users of voting age are already accounted for in that process, they don't get extra sway just because they use the app.
> US citizens elected representatives to make laws for them. Even more so, this is a bipartisan law.
A majority of American citizens want affordable healthcare, housing, and education, net neutrality, an arms embargo vs Israel, an end to illegal forever wars, stronger environmental protections, cleaner water, less fossil fuel use and an end to fracking, etc - and there's still bipartisan resistance in our politics and media against all of those.
Congress doesn't actually represent us, it represents capital. Been like that for a long time. https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-27074746
Pew has it at 32–28 in support of the ban[0]. I think that's pretty low for a bipartisan effort where the opposition hasn't really had a chance to air it's case.
[0] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/05/support-f...
> it's about banning dissent
On the contrary, I think it is about banning a propaganda and social engineering vector that is under the thumb of an adversarial foreign government. That, for me, is enough of a reason to ban it and justify it under our constitution.
The fact that I am in favor of banning all social media should tell you that it is not ideological, but rather that I think social media is extremely addictive, and has huge negative externalities.
> I think it is about banning a propaganda
The problem of allowing government banning propaganda is it allows government to ban anything they label as propaganda. There is no law defining what's propaganda, so you just end up with the government being able to ban any information they don't like.
Imagine the government drums up for another illegal war like Iraq using fake evidence, and we ban all counter evidence as "foreign propaganda". Do you not see how dangerous that gets?
>That, for me, is enough of a reason to ban it and justify it under our constitution
The Supreme Court has explicitly ruled in the past foreign propaganda is protected speech under First Amendment.
You cannot strip American citizens' rights to receive foreign propaganda if they choose to do so.
> The fact that I am in favor of banning all social media should tell you that it is not ideological,
I'm not accusing you of being ideologically motivated, I just think that your (otherwise understandable) support for banning social media is inadvertently helping a bad actor in stifling freedom of speech.
Could China be using TikTok to spread propaganda in the US? Sure, but I haven't seen any evidence supporting this and if there was concrete proof I'd support the ban. Meanwhile the US government is labeling truthful discussions about Israel's genocide "antisemitic propaganda" and using them as motivation for the TikTok ban.
On one side we have vague communist boogeymen, on the other there's expressed desire to take control of unpleasant narratives. That tells me that they're really just trying to take away people's ability to discuss their dissenting ideas.
What criteria define social media that's ban-worthy for you? Does it require the combination of user-generated content and a personalized algorithmic feed which characterizes modern corporate social media, or do you extend it to a broader range of ways people can interact over the internet?
I think there is probably some combination of the following aspects:
-Content is user-generated -Content is curated by the company (i.e., users don't have the ability to fully turn off what is shown to them) -Content is not universal (i.e., users don't see the same thing)
Those in leadership being against a meaningful percentage (about 30%) of those under their care is common.
I voted for a Democrat; and I also was a loud fighter against previous attempts at a TikTok ban. That
* my representatives didn't vote in line with my requests *and*
* that they tend to vote in line with me for other issues *and*
* that there are no other viable options either due to no competition or worse competition
I think part of the problem is everyone thinks they are the "adult in the room" and everyone else is the "primates". I agree policy discussions are a bit of a farce though (in a sorta funny twist places like TikTok are responsible for that since the engagement metrics have a tendency to promote nonsense and lies)
How many of those people voted? The young people who don't vote don't want this and the old people who do vote do want this. The outcome is predictable.
About 1/3 of Americans use TikTok.
When it comes to *restricting* rights (not growing them), it's very concerning that such a large percentage of people can _not_ want something and still have it forced upon them.
My opinion on this has not changed since Trump tried to ban TikTok in his first term [0]: if the USA wants to ban TikTok for XYZ reason, they need to pass a general purpose law in Congress that applies equally to all foreign-owned companies.
Singling out TikTok without a universal principle or law leaves a nasty taste in my mouth, and the US gov. will just be playing whack-a-mole with whatever the TikTok successor is.
[0]: https://www.npr.org/2020/12/07/944039053/u-s-judge-halts-tru...
Shockingly, given how often congress shirks its duty these days, they did write such a law:
https://www.congress.gov/118/bills/hr7520/BILLS-118hr7520eh....
We certainly _do_ want this. I think the fact that we let a foreign company own a social media platform in the first place is preposterous. As others have said, we would never let the CCP own a TV broadcast, why should we let china own a major social media platform? That's just absurd.