Comment by wccrawford

Comment by wccrawford 4 days ago

I went to a school that had a lot of good teachers, and I learned a lot from them.

But when it came to bullies, the school was just as you described. Worse, the punishment for being in a fight was the same whether you started it or you were just beaten up. If you made the fight get noticed, you got punished. It was quite clear that they had no interest in stopping the fights, just in making sure they didn't get reported.

And on the bus, the driver didn't like my family because she once turned the bus around on our grass, tearing up a bunch of it, and my father was angry about that. In retaliation, she let bullies beat me up on the bus for years and turned a blind eye.

My education would probably have suffered if I was home schooled because both my parents were forced to work to make enough money to survive. And I'd be even more introverted than I am now.

But man, the bullying was bad.

ravenstine 4 days ago

Not being supported by the adults who pretend to be trustworthy is nearly as damaging as the bullying itself. Like you, I would be punished alongside the perpetrator even if I didn't throw a single punch or insult. This is extremely toxic because it completely breaks trust and causes children to lose faith in the system they're in, and they shut down. I know I did. I stopped telling anyone my problems because experience told me saying anything only lead to more shame.

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ThatMedicIsASpy 4 days ago

The only true advice I could give to a child with bullying issues is physical violence - as fast as possible. It is sad. It doesn't take many humans to make school/life/work miserable.

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wccrawford 4 days ago

I saw one of my bullies after high school, and I asked him why he stopped hitting me. He looked me in the eyes and just said, "You got big."
He was only scared that I'd hit him back, and nothing else.

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zozbot234 4 days ago

> Worse, the punishment for being in a fight was the same whether you started it or you were just beaten up. If you made the fight get noticed, you got punished.

I'm not saying that this is anything close to optimal, but it should be noted that under this system (which is reminiscent of the way ancient Chinese criminal law worked, per Legal Systems Very Different from Ours[0]) people who get beat up should still report and take the punishment. Sure, you'll get punished for it once but you'll also build a solid reputation for not letting things slide, so it's highly unlikely that anyone will want to beat you up again.

[0] Except that the punishment back then for being involved in a crime (generally a theft or a swindle of some sort) was, guess what-- you got beat up.

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Freak_NL 4 days ago

> […] so it's highly unlikely that anyone will want to beat you up again.
That is, unfortunately, not how this works. The only ways to stop bullying are to be able to stand up to the bullies, which usually is not a realistic proposition (you wouldn't get bullied in the first place if you could) and can lead to further escalation (right on up to shootings or stabbings); to have a very, very empathic teacher who will put their foot down; or to have solid anti-bullying programs which use effective, proven methods to stamp out bullying.
Mind that nothing will deter a really determined bully, and getting punished because your victim spoke up instead of accepting the bully's power will escalate things from 'bullying just because you are available' to 'bullying because I now want you, and specifically, you, as miserable as you can be, all the time'.

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- strken 4 days ago
  
  From my experience with school bullying it was an entirely social problem. If the rest of the classroom agreed that you shouldn't be bullied then there were few ways for a handful of kids to go against that consensus, and most of them would backfire on the would-be bully.
  Of course, if you're young and you have no friends, good luck getting your peers to think you're worth defending.
  
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  Verdex 4 days ago
  
  This is what happened to me, I suspect.
  The one time I got attacked, one of the top three popular guys in the class went berserk on my attacker. This happened in grade school and the next aborted attempt at bullying wasn't until the end of middle school by someone who had transferred in later on.
  
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63stack 4 days ago

Let's call this what this is, it is "below terrible" instead of "anything close to optimal". It's an interesting tidbit from a game theory perspective, but telling your child who is getting beaten up to not worry and play the long game is 1) horrible, 2) only works if everyone else in the game is rational. I don't remember bullies getting into trouble and stopping.

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smallmancontrov 4 days ago

> you'll also build a solid reputation for not letting things slide
This is a terrible idea that was obviously flown as a butt-covering excuse by administrators who, like the school administrators, have discovered that it is much easier to fight reporting of crime than it is to fight crime.
I am deeply disappointed to see it treated as some sort of deep truth, when in fact it is a shallow lie that anyone with the slightest understanding of bureaucracy ought to have seen through in no time at all.

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dijit 4 days ago

I’m sorry you went through that.

I hope life has been kinder to you following this. :(

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wccrawford 4 days ago

Generally speaking, yeah. Someone else mentioned the system preparing you for life later, and I can see where the bullies made me stronger as well.
I definitely don't condone all that as a way to get stronger, but at least I got something from it. Silver linings and all.

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- foobarian 3 days ago
  
  Wish I could say the same. I often wonder how things would turn out if I didn't have the insecurities/other mental handicaps stemming from that period. And fantasize about rewinding time with the current brain and leaving a trail of broken bones in my wake :-D
  
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