Comment by simoncion

Comment by simoncion 4 days ago

I'm not sure that the presumption of innocence has eroded away in the popular consciousness. I suspect that it's roughly at the same place as it was in the 1980s. I suspect the big differences that shape one's contemporary perception of the topic are the conversion of most major US-based news agencies to publishing very little but "shock and outrage" stories, and the prevalence of the Internet Hate Machine that is clickbait-promoting "social media" pushing rage-and/or-sorrow-inducing stories in one's face.

But, yeah, it's deeply disappointing for people to say "Wow, what a strange thing for that guy to be doing. Clearly he's up to no good, should be stopped immediately, and have his property confiscated."... when the thing that the fellow is doing inflicts no actual harm on anyone at all.

h0l0cube 4 days ago

> I'm not sure that the presumption of innocence has eroded away in the popular consciousness

I'm certain the social media and sensationalist broadcast media have over time nudged people closer to mob justice. Further to that, some of the wins of civil libertarians against draconian law enforcement has been eroded away by giving law enforcement sweeping powers via circumventions on due process such as the Patriot Act and that which is detailed in the OP

Reply View 6 replies

simoncion 3 days ago

> ...have over time nudged people closer to mob justice.
I dunno, man. Hang out with better people? Or maybe have a conversation with the ones you do hang out with to discover their actual opinions, rather than taking their Internet-hard-man bloviation at face value?
> ...by giving law enforcement sweeping powers...
What Congresscritters gives the cops has very little to do with what us little people think is important.

Reply View | 5 replies
- h0l0cube 3 days ago
  
  > rather than taking their Internet-hard-man bloviation at face value?
  I’ve been living in the world for long enough to see it change.
  It doesn’t matter what you or I (or an impartial jury) think if law enforcement can just ignore due process. If people cared enough about civil liberties, legislation like the Patriot Act would have at least been repealed instead of extended, things like fraudulent civil forfeiture and the prison industrial complex would have been dealt with. Instead it has become accepted by everyday people that it’s okay to concede those liberties to reduce the burden of evidence for law enforcement in the name of whatever bogeyman the rabble rousers can invoke (e.g., war on drugs, terrorism, illegal immigration, being ‘tough on crime’). The OP article, along with a growing movement of decriminalization represents perhaps a turning of the tide in repealing this legislation, but even if that is true, you’ve got to wonder how we got here in the first place.
  
  Reply View | 4 replies
  
  simoncion 3 days ago
  
  > It doesn’t matter what you or I (or an impartial jury) think if law enforcement can just ignore due process.
  Sure. Agreed.
  > If people cared enough about civil liberties, legislation like the Patriot Act would have at least been repealed instead of extended [and] things like fraudulent civil forfeiture.. would have been dealt with.
  Nah. The average person has effectively zero input into what happens at the Federal level. It's not that they don't care. It's that they can't do shit about it.
  
  Reply View | 3 replies