Comment by throwawayffffas 5 days ago
> Having almost been hit a few times by drivers making a right turn on red, I can tell you the drivers never wait even if you have the right of way. You'll be lucky if they even look for you.
Right on red should not really be allowed. It's a real hazard.
The point of looking deeper at the actual dynamics is to brainstorm ways intersections could be made safer, without overshooting and then getting a campaign to undo it all in 20 years. For example:
Less visual obstructions so that oncoming traffic can be seen sooner? maybe, but probably not going to change learned behavior
Advance the crosswalk even more, with two separate lights? perhaps on a per-intersection basis
Hard square corner kerb instead of a round bevel? Might help in general.
> Less visual obstructions so that oncoming traffic can be seen sooner?
This is called daylighting and California passed a law for it https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/walk/daylighting
> Advance the crosswalk even more, with two separate lights?
Pedestrians already have a "leading signal" in intersections with lots of people, which makes the wall signal change before the green for cars. Right on red defeats their purpose, which is to ensure pedestrians are on the middle of the street by the time a car wants to turn, putting them where they are easiest to be seen.
> Hard square corner kerb instead of a round bevel?
Yes. I would go further and have bulb outs https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/walk/pedestrian-improve... and at grade crossings (the zebra crossing is at the same height as the sidewalk). All of these have been proven to work.
> overshooting
I don't think there is any risk of "overshooting" in making cities nicer and safer for pedestrians and all other road users in the US. If anything it will be an uphill battle to accomplish any change.
Not stopping before the pedestrian area is an instant ticket in my small town. They really promote walkability here. All of the issue listed seem to stem from lack of law enforcement. Our town also has bins at intersections with bright orange flags to increase your visibility as well as flashing 'pedestrian crossing' strobes initiated by button at problem location.
Do you mean bins where people like, take an orange flag out, cross the street holding the flag, and then put the orange flag back in the bin on the other side? This is the first I'm ever hearing of that, and it sounds immediately ridiculous. But with further consideration I could see this being quite interesting for significantly changing the dynamic.
It is completely rediculous and I take every opportunity to ham it the eff up when I use them. They're in in several of the nicer places on the east side of seattle but are being replaced by aggressive pedestrian flashers. I'm 6'2 but I take the opportunity to re-enact my favorite olympics floor ribbion routine.
The real issue are the road rage drivers who can't wait a minute and start honking behind you.
We all get it, we are all late now and then, but unless you are literally trying to catch a plane or a boat, in all likelihood you can sit your candy ass down and wait a minute.
It hasn't been a problem here in Maine, but Portland is an extremely relaxed place. The intersection outside my apartment is quite literally a cliche'd Indian street style free for all with a set of lights that offer suggestions, but people wait for pedestrians and nobody honks.
It's not allowed here in NYC. I've nearly gotten mowed down by people from the suburbs driving into the city not knowing it's illegal here on a few occasions. They also seem to get pissed and honk at me, as if walking around NYC isn't the default mode of transportation.
Haha that’s fair. There are unwritten sidewalk walking rules that tourists and new transplants don’t always know. Once you start thinking of the sidewalk as a place that commuting takes place it makes a little more sense — people are late for work and that tourist walking while looking up or another with their face stuck in their phone is like a car driving 30 in the leftmost lane.
IMO the problem isn't right on red itself, but rather that vehicles have to be in (and often completely over) the pedestrian crossing area to see oncoming vehicle traffic they have to yield to (at the distance required due to higher oncoming vehicle speeds). This encourages the behavior where drivers plan to have a single stop in that area, where they wait for an opening in vehicles to go - completely failing to take into account the possibility of having to stop before that area due to pedestrians actually using it. The situation is more like two separate stop and yields, and when drivers don't expect pedestrians they skip the first one.