Comment by mncharity 5 days ago
> access to a lathe is a fundamental human right
A teacher once told me their (middle? high?) school was the last in their state with lathes. Something which couldn't be created there today, and couldn't exist now in some other states, but which had been repeatedly grandfathered, since its creation with many others, just after World War 2. And that it would disappear upon the first serious accident, leaving none at all.
People are good, maybe a little too good, at assessing the risks of acute instances like an injury from some equipment. We seem to be awful at assessing systemic risks like growing up without knowing to make things for yourself, and what that does to a society.
It only takes one student to lose an arm, face, life and their parents will sue the school into oblivion and start PAPT (parents against power tools) or something "for the kids!"
I'm on your side that I'd rather see the tools at the school. At the same time, I took an auto-shop class in high school and the majority of students in the class were dipshits and were lucky not to get more hurt. The teacher managed to stop them just in time from trying to turn over an engine on a rack that would have crushed them if the teach had been 5 second later.
We actually did have an unprecedented accident a couple years back and as a result some new safety requirements were put in place. But no tools or access to tools were removed.
I wonder if the culture here is different than the U.S.? Dipshit students are removed from these classes before they can get anywhere near tools. It’s definitely a privilege to be in a shop class.
I don't want to generalize it but as soon as you said "if the culture here is different than the U.S" I thought "Okay yep that's why."
I don't even know if it counts as culture, but the US inevitably seems to have such a refined sense of litigation and, insurance mindset for lack of a better term?
Anecdotally, schools are indeed a prime example, we had cooking classes in high school that were stopped because of the costs to insure for it.
Access to a CNC mill and a CNC lathe should be a fundamental right.
Being CNC with an enclosure mitigates 99+% of all the safety issues and makes them 1000% more useful. With CNC, the most harmful injury is likely to be a broken bone because you're only in the envelope with servos active but not the spindle. With manual, the spindle or chuck can grab you and kill you or send shrapnel into you.
And I really wish we had a good, open source pick and place. Those still can't handle 0201 components and higher density BGAs even though those PCBs are really cheap nowadays.
I've seen a Massachusetts public library with an associated hacker space (sewing machines; 3D printers), and another with a "tool lending library" (including a battery drill, IIRC?). And have read of European libraries with a "be a general community space" vibe. So that seems plausible at least.
I picked some random public high school in my area (twin cities, MN). Here's some classes they offer:
> Machine Technology 1 - Increase your knowledge and skills in the use of common hand tools, engine lathes, shapers, drill presses, milling machines, and grinders. In this class students will have hands-on experiences in elementary mechanical fundamentals and principles used in precision manufacturing industries.
> Welding 1 - Interested in becoming a welder? Learn how to use the art of welding in artistic and industrial settings. Develop basic skills related to safety, equipment set up, metal transfer, gas shielding and welding various types of metals. This class focuses on oxyacetylene and gas tungsten arc welding.
> Construction Trades 1 - Interested in a career in construction or learning valuable home maintenance skills? In this course you will develop basic carpentry, metals, electricity, and pipefitting skills along with safe usage of hand and power tools applicable to each skill set.
I think there was a period (90s-2000s?) where trade skills were mostly not taught in public schools, but they're thankfully working their way back in.
I mentor at a public high school that has a dozen metal lathes, a half dozen wood lathes. Plasma cutters. CNC everything. A giant planer. My favourite thing is that half of it is super modern and half of it is indestructible WWII surplus, which looks really cool mixed together.
I cannot imagine the concept of lathes being taken out of schools because of accidents. What a self destructive cultural attitude.