Comment by ldoughty

Neat, Submitted a request for my grandfather's records. Some comments:

1) May want to auto-magically handle input for things like apostrophes. E.g. "O'Hare"... It looks like somewhere in the process this data was not preserved/saved/sent, but people will probably try to search with it. Might also want to handle the accent marks and what not too

2) The terms & conditions for Step 3, the checkbox at the bottom doesn't have enough contrast when checked. I do not have a disability, and I still found it very faint. Someone with a disability would likely have a lot of trouble (not to mention, it requires scrolling to the bottom to check it in the first place, which isn't awesome for accessibility)

3) I appreciate the warning on the terms and conditions about seeing things you might not want to see. A good reminder for those that might not want to tarnish a memory of someone... Reminds me of the DNA tests for Christmas, or learning about Punnett Squares and genetics, sometimes you might not want to go looking :-)

>> 3) I appreciate the warning on the terms and conditions about seeing things you might not want to see. A good reminder for those that might not want to tarnish a memory of someone... Reminds me of the DNA tests for Christmas, or learning about Punnett Squares and genetics, sometimes you might not want to go looking :-)

> I'd echo this. I found that to be exceptionally well-written and helped me understand the records I'd receive were unlikely to be the records I was interested in, so I cancelled at that point.

I was curious, so clicked through the form far enough to get those warnings:

> ...

> The specific type of FOIA request that you can make through this website is one that asks the VA for a copy of a deceased veteran's Claims File (C-File). This file primarily contains a record of the veteran's contact with the VA (or the veteran's heirs' and family's contact with the VA) specifically regarding veterans' benefits. It may include copies of some of the veteran's service-related records, including entry/induction and separation/discharge documents, but often only to the extent that those records were considered necessary in order to establish their identity or to make a claim for a benefit. A C-File is not the same as an Official Military Personnel File (OMPF), although it sometimes may contain parts of the OMPF within it.

> Many of these C-Files will include medical information and medical claims that were brought by the veteran (or their family or heirs) from before, during, and/or after their service. This often includes basic physical and health information about the veteran, including their height, weight, descriptions of childhood illnesses, past surgeries, notations of scars or distinctive markings, and so on. However, these files might also include medical information that would otherwise be considered private or sensitive, including graphic depictions of injuries, illnesses or diseases, and/or wartime trauma suffered while the veteran was in the service, or after service, or concerning end-of-life care. The file may also include discussions of disabilities, service-related or not, only some of which may have been covered by veterans' benefits, while others may have been denied by the VA, possibly unfairly.

> The file may also include sensitive information about the veteran's mental health, including their experiences with, treatment for, and/or claims for disability for psychological trauma or for mental illnesses. This may include descriptions of what we would today recognize as service-related Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), but which may be listed in the veteran's file with outdated phrases such as "shell shock" or "psychoneurosis, anxiety state" or even more overtly disparaging terms from former military or VA medical personnel. It may also include archaic medical terminology, depictions, presumed causes, or treatments for various types of mental illness. This information may be troubling to read, not just for the sometimes graphic depiction of the veteran's trauma or mental state, but also because of the way it was often treated (or negligently untreated) in their official VA file.

> (For example, in one C-File we've seen, an Army doctor officially "diagnosed" a hospitalized World War I veteran with "hypochondriasis on a constitutionally inferior basis" [sic] before discharging him from the service. This record remained in his file, even after his death in 1973.)

> The file may also include information about the veteran's alcohol use, drug use, and/or tobacco use, or at least to the extent that the veteran reported their "habits" to the Armed Services or to VA personnel or to medical doctors.

> The file may also include information about the veteran's sexual behavior or sexual orientation, including possible military discharge or punishment for same-sex relations or non-heterosexual identity, whether actual or perceived.

> The file may also make explicit note of any venereal diseases or sexually transmitted infections experienced by the veteran, including documentation of ongoing or past treatments for what may have (at the time) been a chronic incurable illness such as advanced or tertiary syphilis. This information may therefore be medically relevant or potentially damaging to the veteran's spouse(s) or partner(s) or other family members.

> The file may also have information about the veteran's financial or educational information, or other typically-private information, particularly if they were using or attempting to qualify for a pension, a disability benefit, a VA Home Loan, the GI Bill of Rights for educational benefits, or other benefits.

> In addition to the veteran's own information, the veteran's C-File may sometimes include information about their non-veteran family members, including their parents and spouses and siblings and sometimes even extended family members, even a veteran's spouse's former spouse. This is generally just basic information, including for example the parents' places of birth or a spouse's date of marriage, but it may include family medical information (including reports of physical or mental health conditions that might be genetic), financial information, educational information, or other details of their lives. The file sometimes contains actual copies of family members' vital records such as birth, marriage, divorce, and death records. While the veteran is deceased, making their C-File largely open to the public under FOIA (as the Privacy Act of 1974 only refers to the files of living people), it is still possible that some of the other people mentioned in that now-open file may still be alive. If you come across sensitive information about a third party referenced in a deceased veteran's file that was (wrongly) not redacted by the VA, you are strongly urged to not disseminate, re-publish, or misuse any part of that information which could affect a living person's privacy.

> You, the FOIA requester, therefore understand that these files might contain all sorts of information which might be considered sensitive, objectionable, upsetting, disparaging, invasive, or otherwise cause you or the veteran's family members or heirs distress. If you are not okay with the possibility of learning this kind of information, then you should not make a FOIA request for this kind of file, and you should hit the cancel button now.

> ...

owenmarshall 5 days ago

> 3) I appreciate the warning on the terms and conditions about seeing things you might not want to see.

I'd echo this. I found that to be exceptionally well-written and helped me understand the records I'd receive were unlikely to be the records I was interested in, so I cancelled at that point.

Your abandon rate at that step could make for interesting reading!

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tivert 5 days ago

>> 3) I appreciate the warning on the terms and conditions about seeing things you might not want to see. A good reminder for those that might not want to tarnish a memory of someone... Reminds me of the DNA tests for Christmas, or learning about Punnett Squares and genetics, sometimes you might not want to go looking :-)
> I'd echo this. I found that to be exceptionally well-written and helped me understand the records I'd receive were unlikely to be the records I was interested in, so I cancelled at that point.
I was curious, so clicked through the form far enough to get those warnings:
> ...
> The specific type of FOIA request that you can make through this website is one that asks the VA for a copy of a deceased veteran's Claims File (C-File). This file primarily contains a record of the veteran's contact with the VA (or the veteran's heirs' and family's contact with the VA) specifically regarding veterans' benefits. It may include copies of some of the veteran's service-related records, including entry/induction and separation/discharge documents, but often only to the extent that those records were considered necessary in order to establish their identity or to make a claim for a benefit. A C-File is not the same as an Official Military Personnel File (OMPF), although it sometimes may contain parts of the OMPF within it.
> Many of these C-Files will include medical information and medical claims that were brought by the veteran (or their family or heirs) from before, during, and/or after their service. This often includes basic physical and health information about the veteran, including their height, weight, descriptions of childhood illnesses, past surgeries, notations of scars or distinctive markings, and so on. However, these files might also include medical information that would otherwise be considered private or sensitive, including graphic depictions of injuries, illnesses or diseases, and/or wartime trauma suffered while the veteran was in the service, or after service, or concerning end-of-life care. The file may also include discussions of disabilities, service-related or not, only some of which may have been covered by veterans' benefits, while others may have been denied by the VA, possibly unfairly.
> The file may also include sensitive information about the veteran's mental health, including their experiences with, treatment for, and/or claims for disability for psychological trauma or for mental illnesses. This may include descriptions of what we would today recognize as service-related Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD), but which may be listed in the veteran's file with outdated phrases such as "shell shock" or "psychoneurosis, anxiety state" or even more overtly disparaging terms from former military or VA medical personnel. It may also include archaic medical terminology, depictions, presumed causes, or treatments for various types of mental illness. This information may be troubling to read, not just for the sometimes graphic depiction of the veteran's trauma or mental state, but also because of the way it was often treated (or negligently untreated) in their official VA file.
> (For example, in one C-File we've seen, an Army doctor officially "diagnosed" a hospitalized World War I veteran with "hypochondriasis on a constitutionally inferior basis" [sic] before discharging him from the service. This record remained in his file, even after his death in 1973.)
> The file may also include information about the veteran's alcohol use, drug use, and/or tobacco use, or at least to the extent that the veteran reported their "habits" to the Armed Services or to VA personnel or to medical doctors.
> The file may also include information about the veteran's sexual behavior or sexual orientation, including possible military discharge or punishment for same-sex relations or non-heterosexual identity, whether actual or perceived.
> The file may also make explicit note of any venereal diseases or sexually transmitted infections experienced by the veteran, including documentation of ongoing or past treatments for what may have (at the time) been a chronic incurable illness such as advanced or tertiary syphilis. This information may therefore be medically relevant or potentially damaging to the veteran's spouse(s) or partner(s) or other family members.
> The file may also have information about the veteran's financial or educational information, or other typically-private information, particularly if they were using or attempting to qualify for a pension, a disability benefit, a VA Home Loan, the GI Bill of Rights for educational benefits, or other benefits.
> In addition to the veteran's own information, the veteran's C-File may sometimes include information about their non-veteran family members, including their parents and spouses and siblings and sometimes even extended family members, even a veteran's spouse's former spouse. This is generally just basic information, including for example the parents' places of birth or a spouse's date of marriage, but it may include family medical information (including reports of physical or mental health conditions that might be genetic), financial information, educational information, or other details of their lives. The file sometimes contains actual copies of family members' vital records such as birth, marriage, divorce, and death records. While the veteran is deceased, making their C-File largely open to the public under FOIA (as the Privacy Act of 1974 only refers to the files of living people), it is still possible that some of the other people mentioned in that now-open file may still be alive. If you come across sensitive information about a third party referenced in a deceased veteran's file that was (wrongly) not redacted by the VA, you are strongly urged to not disseminate, re-publish, or misuse any part of that information which could affect a living person's privacy.
> You, the FOIA requester, therefore understand that these files might contain all sorts of information which might be considered sensitive, objectionable, upsetting, disparaging, invasive, or otherwise cause you or the veteran's family members or heirs distress. If you are not okay with the possibility of learning this kind of information, then you should not make a FOIA request for this kind of file, and you should hit the cancel button now.
> ...

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Asparagirl 5 days ago

Thanks. The original data set, as provided by the VA, has all sorts of data errors and oddities in it. The major ones involving surnames include the inconsistent use of apostrophes in names like O’BRIEN, often written as O BRIEN, and/or vice versa — or the inconsistent formatting of MC and MAC names like MCMAHON as MC MAHON, and/or vice versa. There are also some names where the VA includes an errant dash, not meant to be a hyphen, and other mistakes, as well.

So we try our best to help a user find the veteran even with the dirty data we have. For example, there is code here (using a common NPM package) to convert a user’s potential typed accent marks to a non-accented version of the same letter. In compound surnames we will also break up the surname on a space or a hyphen and search both parts, but not if a surname part is three letters or fewer. It’s imperfect but we have to work with the data we’ve got and can’t and shouldn’t normalize or clean the underlying file.

Suppafly 5 days ago

>names like MCMAHON as MC MAHON, and/or vice versa.
My mom has a Van name and it's hell trying to use government and insurance websites, because they'll take the space out or add one in irregardless of what you use when signing up and then fail to find the account when doing a lookup for things like password resets or for activating the account that they created for her.
It'd seem logical that some sort of fuzzy matching for apostrophe and spaces would be built in, but I've yet to find a government site where that's the case.

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