Comment by withinboredom

Comment by withinboredom 7 days ago

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I rebuilt durable-functions in php. Durable Functions is a C# actor model runtime. My PHP implementation meets or exceeds the same benchmarks as the C# version.

> It could be easily proven by doing a bunch of work but obviously there is no point in me proving it.

Because you cannot prove it... :) I wrote this post a few years ago, that actually spurned some improvements in C# ... so here you go: https://withinboredom.info/2022/03/16/yes-php-is-faster-than...

that_guy_iain 7 days ago

No, it's because I've got productive things to do that do benchmarks that have already been done repeatedly. The only way to get PHP to the same speed as compiled languages for web requests is to use experimental tooling.

I notice your benchmarks are over 10 runs?! That's not a good sample size. And even more importantly, it's not in the same context.

Sure once you compile PHP and have it running it'll run fast. But PHP has a very specific usage which is web applications. It's been well-known for years that PHP's performance issues are related to the fact it's an interpreted language that has to be interpreted everytime but if you compile and run repeatedly it can perform extremely well. Which is why every performance related PHP nerd is working on experimental tools to do that.

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  • withinboredom 7 days ago

    > That's not a good sample size.

    Like I said in the blog post, if I tell you the sky is blue and you don't believe me; run them yourself. FWIW, C# is faster now for that particular use case. Also, like I mentioned in a previous blog post ... which one would you rather maintain:

    - https://github.com/TheAlgorithms/C-Sharp/blob/master/Algorit... -- merge sort in C# 130 lines

    - https://www.w3resource.com/php-exercises/searching-and-sorti... -- merge sort in PHP 60 lines

    PHP is often far more concise than C#, and many other languages. I code more in Go than C# or PHP these days, but even Go has its limitations where it would be easier to express in PHP than Go. There are even certain classes of algorithms that are butt-ugly in Go but quite pretty in PHP.

    PHP is still my favorite language, even though I hardly get to use it these days.

    > PHP has a very specific usage which is web applications.

    Originally, yes. But it outgrew that about 10 years or so ago. It's much more general purpose now.[1][2]

    [1]: https://nativephp.com/ -- desktop applications in php

    [2]: https://static-php.dev/ -- build self-contained, statically compiled clis written in php

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    • phillipcarter 7 days ago

      The C# to PHP comparison is not fair, as the link you gave for the C# code uses abstractions to support "arrays" that could also be backed by file storage. An equivalent translation of the PHP code is about 60 lines as well, before applying any code golfing (and including comments and whitespace).

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    • neonsunset 7 days ago

      You do realize that you are comparing two different implementations with different type systems that use different abstractions? Clearly you can't be serious. So, unless you are being intentionally misleading, this raises questions about the quality of "PHP solution" that is being worked on.

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      • withinboredom 7 days ago

        I'm being serious in using it as an example of maintainability/expressiveness. The difference is deliberate, not accidental. I've written 15 PHP lines that would be hundreds of lines in C#, and I've written 15 lines of Go that would be hundreds of lines of PHP. Every language has its own strengths and weaknesses and levels of complexity. PHP fits into a sweet spot (IMHO) of low-levelness and high-levelness, but it is often not seriously considered due to its reputation in the 00's.

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  • mrngm 7 days ago

    I'm sure you've heard of PHP's opcache by now. That's not experimental and actually caches the interpreted code in memory for faster subsequent execution.

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    • that_guy_iain 7 days ago

      Yes, it makes it faster but does not deal with the core performance issues which is why Roadrunner, Frankenphp, etc exist.

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    • withinboredom 7 days ago

      Yes, and in 8.4, uses an actual IR for machine code generation and is pretty cool!

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