Comment by mmooss

Comment by mmooss 7 days ago

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> I'm also trying to be supportive and help, but I'm often at a loss over how to help. A lot of the time I listen and nod along with "yeah that sucks." But it feels like all I can actually do is try and find the optimistic side or solutions to problems, and most of the time I get shut down as they can only see the negatives. I can't blame them, but what else can I do?

(Caveat: I have experience with people who have other conditions, but not with someone who has BPD.)

Look at the other messages here: What do people need? To be seen. To not carry the burden by ourselves. That is what your significant other needs. See them, be interested in them, be curious about them - just for their sake, as they are, as if they were valuable and lovable and important as they are. Give them space to talk, without any resistance at all from you; wrap your arms around them, physically or emotionally, and let them be and talk.

Leave yourself and your ideas out of it, way out of it. As a crass comparison, it's a bit like looking at a painting or reading a book that you love - you dive into it, you leave yourself behind, you want to know more about the author, the characters, what they mean, what they are thinking ... they have nothing to do with you.

Problem solving is a much different mode - those are your ideas. That has always been my instinct and I've had to learn to leave that behind. Unless someone makes clear they want it, just listen. Your S.O. doesn't need to be right or wrong - it doesn't matter. They are just very, very lonely with their condition.

Imagine you have a problem that is not only awful, overwhelming and terrifying, but others condemn you for it (even though there's little you can do), ostracize you for it. Even your loved ones don't want to know the truth, the reality of it - they can't handle it, amplifying your isolation and pain; they pull away. Don't pull away.

partner_privacy 4 days ago

Your words are going to stick with me. Powerful. In particular, I feel like your last paragraph is very close to what my SO is going through. Thank you.

I have a hard time making the decision between listening mode and problem solving mode. Surely there are times when problem solving mode is helpful?

I understand the "only when they ask for help" idea, but this specific person does not have the instinct to ask for help, which makes it difficult.

Or when they do ask for help, it is for such general large abstract problems that I am also at a loss of how to give actionable advice.

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  • mmooss 3 days ago

    I'm glad you found it helpful. I don't know you or your SO at all, so here are some general thoughts that help me:

    > I have a hard time making the decision between listening mode and problem solving mode. Surely there are times when problem solving mode is helpful?

    All I can tell you is that everyone seems to have this thought and the endless drive to insert themselves into the conversation, and we all find endless rationalizations and opportunities and exceptions - this time is special! - that will allow it. Me too. Recognize the drive; zip it. 'No, this time is not an exception - again'; just zip it.

    It also means your attention, your thoughts, your emotion are focused on yourself, your ideas, your drive to talk, and not on your SO. That is a fundamental mistake of listening. Good listening takes your senses (visual, audial, maybe touch, etc.) to pick up what they are communicating; all your concentration (emotional on their feeling, intellectual on the words, etc.); composure (body language, etc.); emotion (they can see and sense it, of course); etc. Turn your attention away from yourself and focus it on them - like swiveling a big camera on a movie set, you are behind the camera, focused on the actors and silent now.

    > I understand the "only when they ask for help" idea, but this specific person does not have the instinct to ask for help, which makes it difficult.

    I don't know you or your SO at all, as I said, but here is a common trap: Maybe they don't ask because you already push it on them too often. They feel trapped, pressured; the last thing they want is more 'advice' - not that you have bad advice, but they need space, less pressure; they need to figure things out themselves without having your ideas fill the space, distracting their attention, and demanding responses. So they don't ask and then you see that and push more on them - a reinforcing cycle in the wrong direction.

    Start a cycle in the right direction: If you back off, give them as much space as they want without resistance (or asking - 'can I tell you now?'), eventually they will flourish, come around, open up, and feel much happier and safer, and probably ask you. It may take lots of patience - and if you are struggling with the patience, you still have a problem with your personal drive and the focus of your attention (it took a long time for that to diminish in me).

    > Or when they do ask for help, it is for such general large abstract problems that I am also at a loss of how to give actionable advice.

    Look for the emotion behind their worry, and help them find their way through that. They are lost in the woods so help them find their way through; telling them what's on the other side doesn't really help.

    I hope that helps!

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rectang 7 days ago

> What do people need?

People need money. Being a caregiver is financially devastating because those who need the care often exceed their means, and society expects caregivers to pick up the tab. We've emphasized quantity of life over quality of life; that diminished quality of life often comes not only in the form of physical and emotional suffering, but also impoverishment.

And in the US, caregiving about to get even more financially devastating as the ACA is either repealed or gutted.

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  • mmooss 7 days ago

    Harris said she would fund caregiving, I think through Medicare.

    > People need money.

    They need other things too.

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hunter-gatherer 7 days ago

I don't know... My older brother took the exact approach you just outlined with his SO, and he did it with more sincerity and compassion than anyone I know. She has a handful of illnesses and it has completely wrecked his life to the point that he might as well be dead. He isn't the person I grew up with. In a lot of ways, he already is dead, and it sucks really bad. He no longer is the compassionate person I knew. He doesn't have control of his own physical health anymore. He has no friends. It is a terrible situation. My point is that if it looks like beinf supportive is going to wreck your life too, maybe it's not worth it, especially when you're young.

Before everyone downvotes me and has a knee jerk reaction, consider that I have told you next to nothing of the entire situation, so you'll be responding to something you know nothing about.

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  • partner_privacy 4 days ago

    As someone else said, that is extreme. But I honestly believe you.

    I appreciate the words of warning. I believe I'm being careful about my own situation, and I have a decent support network myself. But I know it's a risky situation to be in.

    I'd like to hear more about your situation with your brother. Maybe there's something I can learn from it. If you prefer not to share publicly, you can send me an email at partner_privacy@proton.me

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  • mmooss 6 days ago

    Wow, that's pretty extreme! It's hard to imagine how someone could write something more extreme.

    I don't see how listening to someone in a different way, which is what I described in the GP, would cause someone to lose control of their physical health, lose their friends, etc. ?

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