Comment by sourcepluck

Comment by sourcepluck 9 days ago

2 replies

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

I followed the two links from the comment on SE making the claim that Church's choice of lambda was completely arbitrary (pun intended). The first one doesn't seem to work, and the second one is a 2m youtube clip of Dana Scott talking about the subject.

I watched the video, the audio is a bit hard to make out in parts, and I'm left thinking the SE commenter interpreting Dana Scott, who you quote fully there, is overstating the case somewhat. Perhaps the claim should be moved from "likely true" to "somewhat uncertain", but not in any way "debunked" as the commenter says. Debunking means providing conclusive evidence against a claim, that any reasonable person would be obliged to agree with. Here we have an interesting and relevant anecdote, but it's still anecdotal, unfortunately.

Scott says a couple of things which are clearly audible that are relevant:

1. He asked John McCarthy personally why Church chose lambda, and McCarthy said he'd no idea,

2. Church never talked about the lambda calculus when he (Scott) was at Princeton, and

3. John Addison, Church's son-in-law, told Scott that he (Addison) wrote Church a postcard in which he asked him where he got lambda from, and that Church sent the whole postcard back to him with "eeny, meeny, miny, moe" written in the margins.

So I'm very happy you shared some more information on the subject, but I feel a conscientious biographer, for example, would be forced to include Scott's and Barendregt's theories and say that without confirmation from Church himself the matter is hard to decide. If anyone has a relevant quote from Church, I'd love to see it, but I presume it mustn't exist if Scott is so convinced there's no link.

I'm tempted to also point out more generally that all symbols are esoteric if you go back far enough, so I don't know if your particular quest could ever have been satisfied. In any case, I learned French beore Lisp, so I did have the experience of going, "oh, like in French? Why is that, I wonder?".

psychoslave 9 days ago

Only on HN will I find people pickier than myself I guess. ^^

>I'm tempted to also point out more generally that all symbols are esoteric if you go back far enough

It certainly all depends on what we put as definition of esoteric and what is far enough. :) Here what I was meaning was in contrast of a choice like "anonymously".

Since you speak French, you might be interested to watch "L’odyssée de l’écriture - Les origines ": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8P2nAj50LdY

  • sourcepluck 9 days ago

    Isn't that what it is - a place where we don't have to pretend we don't care about details.

    I see the point of the documentary, it would have absolutely floored me a couple of months ago. However, I have very recently spent a month learning Serbian, which included learning (Serbian) Cyrillic, which led to me finally asking some obvious questions - where does Cyrillic come from, where does Greek come from, where does the Latin alphabet come from, etc. So I've binged similar information of the sort that documentary describes, I think.

    I still might watch it later though and see if there's more juice in there, thank you very much!