Comment by hypnot
I was excited to see "minimalist" and "brutalist, but you lost me at requiring to enable my javascript, and after that using cloudflare Captcha.
I was excited to see "minimalist" and "brutalist, but you lost me at requiring to enable my javascript, and after that using cloudflare Captcha.
That is a strawman.
You can disagree and think that the OP was letting the definition of "minimalism" and "brutalism" do too much heavy lifting.
But you rather imply that without javascript you cannot create a "winning" website. And ignored that the OP has a real point: Can we call a website minimalist if it requires javascript. It was not excluded that you could embellish (maybe a lot) with javascript. In the same way I would expect javascript to load async.
While I have heard your argument before it implies a really interesting design "smell". On that we might disagree. But it is there nevertheless.
Your curiosity implies that winner takes all. I agree that javascript has won. But I feel you imply that it is then ok for the victor to burn down the village. We forgot what made the web. The foundation is still html and not javascript. What I read as the "javascript attitude" makes is harder to transition away from javascript when that day comes.
Javascript is really great. Warts and all. But the "strong" proponents keeps forgetting the beauty in separation of concerns. On this point we can then have an honest disagreement.
I hope I do not come off too harsh. I genuinely wanted to address your curiosity.
I think the OPs pov is quite clear. So with your reaction I suspect we also disagree on JS0 and JSugar. That is again some bad voodoo on how to seperate concerns from people who looks at who is winning now and missing the bigger picture.
Much like art (and everything, especially in things that line up with pedantry) every person is going to have their own opinion on what exactly minimal is, what exactly brutalist is, etc.
I don't take anyone's comments that this isn't their brutalism / minimalism to heart and any place I can use the feedback I will.
Some pages are loaded in under 1KB so for my definition I don't know how much more minimal I can practically be. Also I'm going to use spam fighting tech because this is a great tool for spammers. If I have to trade not having Richard Stallman using the site that's just a practical trade I'll have to make.
:) I think you have a really reasonable take here, thanks for spending the time to reply.
Sorry I should clarify. I didn't mean winning in terms of the website's success, I meant in terms of finding sites that can work without javascript
This.
Right here :-)
That is HN itself! Have a look at the source. How little Javascript it actually needs and see how well it can work without. I even like the idea behind the sparse styling and layout it use but I still think the looks could be much improved.
It is not for all as some sites are too much on the app heavy spectrum. But the current mindset among developers makes this leak everywhere. So many sites are really poorly designed. That is interesting in the context of debating minimalism and how broadly that can be defined in context of Javascript requirements.
Too few does what Travis did and try to do something minimalist. And the web suffers for it. Agree or not with his design decisions but his sentiment is laudable.
You only have a hard time to find sites which does not work without javascript because that is the lazy easy way. Good design and engineering is ignored as it is easy to quickly mock up a react site. Accessability then comes as an afterthought. And no-one cares about long term maintenance.
So sure; good luck finding a site which works well without Javascript. But that is my point: It might be the reality but should not be what we strive for. Some prefer the status quo while others prefer the fight. It might be against the windmills but nevertheless the point stands.
> I'm curious, how many websites can you even use without javascript?
HN for a start ...
I'm curious, how many websites can you even use without javascript? I imagine it would not be many, and would be a losing battle.