Comment by bruce511

Comment by bruce511 2 months ago

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>> , I'm not sure why it would be limited to donations. They can hire devs to work on FOSS.

These FOSS we personally use. And FOSS we don't. Most of the FOSS we use already has plenty of paid devs. Think Linux, Firefox etc.

But what about small projects? How does that hiring conversation go? How do I explain my hiring request to my supervisor? Why am I spending 100k a year on a text editor? Why have I mandated we use my cousin's text editor and we're paying him to write it? When there hasn't been a significant update in 2 years? When we had to layoff staff to make mandated cost cutting?

squigz 2 months ago

> Why am I spending 100k a year on a text editor? Why have I mandated we use my cousin's text editor and we're paying him to write it? When there hasn't been a significant update in 2 years? When we had to layoff staff to make mandated cost cutting?

Wow. What absurdly unfair examples.

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  • bruce511 2 months ago

    They serve to show why random OSS projects are indistinguishable from corruption.

    In other words how do I choose which projects to support? How do I detect when said support is above board or when there are other factors?

    You may take issue with the specific example but "hiring OSS devs", or worse making OSS donations, look exactly like this (if not as blatant.)

    As a business owner How do I know these decisions are made in good faith? As a shareholder how much of this am I prepared to tolerate?

    Those businesses making "billions in profit" have very high levels of accountability. Lots of people care deeply about that money.

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    • menaerus 2 months ago

      > They serve to show why random OSS projects are indistinguishable from corruption. > In other words how do I choose which projects to support? How do I detect when said support is above board or when there are other factors?

      Same argument can be applied to closed-source software. For example, how do you decide which vendor is your company going to select for their internal or external business. Why did you choose Cisco security solution over Fortinet or whatever other alternative there is? Is it corruption in terms of "I know this guy in Cisco" or is it "their solution is the most powerful"? Essentially, as you say, it is indistinguishable. I don't see how this is any different than to select some FOSS project to support if it generates your company/product a value.

      Reason why companies aren't paying for FOSS is simply because they don't have to. And also there's no business on the other side to buy something back from you which is many times the case with B2B deals.

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      • bruce511 2 months ago

        >> For example, how do you decide which vendor is your company going to select for their internal or external business.

        Selecting software (commercial or OSS) is no problem. And OSS bring free is a plus in that column.

        Paying for commercial software is easy. They give us an invoice, and we pay it. OSS has donated button on a web site. There is absolutely no motivation to click it, and indeed clicking it leads to all kinds of extra hassle and work.

        OSS has no business model. That makes it hard for companies that are used to business.

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      • kelnos 2 months ago

        > Reason why companies aren't paying for FOSS is simply because they don't have to.

        Yup. All this other stuff is just noise: this is the real reason.

        If I ran an open source project that businesses used, I could make something that looked exactly like an invoice for a piece of commercial software, but say it's optional to pay, and companies would -- completely correctly -- not pay it.

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    • squigz 2 months ago

      > How do I detect when said support is above board or when there are other factors?

      > As a business owner How do I know these decisions are made in good faith? As a shareholder how much of this am I prepared to tolerate?

      Hypotheticals that I'm not going to bother trying to answer, because that's going to depend on the business, the business owners, the projects they choose to support, and a myriad of other factors. Good luck getting some generic answer to such questions.

      > In other words how do I choose which projects to support?

      You're right. Impossible to decide, so let's not even try.

      Or, like, do some research and have a discussion to determine which of the various FOSS your company uses that could do with some funding. Evaluate them individually. Decide on a monetary limit. Re-evaluate regularly. You know, normal business accountability things, right?

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      • kelnos 2 months ago

        > You know, normal business accountability things, right?

        No, not at all. A normal business accountability thing would involve not paying for something when you don't have to. Or, rather, not paying when paying doesn't grant additional value beyond what not paying gives you.

        For the most part, a company that uses an open source project will not see any upside if they pay. Collectively, yes, it would be better to financially support the projects that companies depend on, but on an individual basis, a company logically sees no reason to pay.

        And even if the worst happens, say the sole maintainer gets hit by a bus and dies... most companies will be content to wait and see, and deal with that problem if and when it happens, not before then.

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