Comment by orangeboats
Comment by orangeboats 10 months ago
How does it not?
Comment by orangeboats 10 months ago
How does it not?
Does NAT port exhaustion not count as "materially affecting bandwidth"? At least, the maximum bandwidth is capped. Furthermore, the keepalive packets (required to maintain a port mapping) must cause the maximum useful bandwidth to be reduced, do they not?
Either way, expecting no effects on latency/bandwidth when additional processing is involved is a rather insane take. If anything, you should be the person presenting evidences to prove your position. Ideally, the cost effectiveness of whatever you present should be included too.
Anecdotally, I have experienced IPv4 slowdown due to CGNAT overload. Make of it what you will.
> Does NAT port exhaustion not count as "materially affecting bandwidth"?
In a home network this is a negligible concern. In a CGNAT setup it is a limitation of the hardware or ISP, not really NAT. Furthermore it impedes establishing connections, not bandwidth.
> Furthermore, the keepalive packets
First, what keepalive packets? NAT does not introduce packets into an existing TCP or UDP stream; for TCP it uses control packets to detect state and whether teardown is needed. For UDP keepalive packets depends on the underlying protocol; for example wireguard supports a persistent keepalive. But is this material though? Will this even materially affect a dialup connection?
> Either way, expecting no effects on latency/bandwidth when additional processing is involved is a rather insane take.
You're putting words in my mouth. I asked does it materially affect bandwidth or latency or does it bottleneck it in some way. My argument is that NAT introduces packet process delay in the magnitude of microseconds per packet processing. This is negligible when most applications on the Internet deal with latency in milliseconds. Lastly, if the point is to compare, it'd be NAT against no NAT, not really NAT against IPv6. I find your position weak insofar saying port exhaustion or keepalive packets limit bandwidth; if it does, quantify it.
> Anecdotally, I have experienced IPv4 slowdown due to CGNAT overload. Make of it what you will.
That's on your ISP, not NAT. It's no different to your ISP delivering gigabit to last mile and using dialup links for connectivity. They need to adequately resource the network.
> Furthermore it impedes establishing connections, not bandwidth.
Can't have bandwidth if you are TCP RST'd.
> First, what keepalive packets?
Any devices or protocols sending a useless keepalive packets (e.g. Wireguard has this) just so the NAT won't take away the precious 5-tuple and give it to others.
> NAT against no NAT, not really NAT against IPv6
I am sorry, but I cannot imagine a "No NAT" solution that doesn't involve IPv6. So yes, NAT vs No NAT is still NAT vs IPv6.
Unless you still have a /16 IPv4 block in your hands, in which case, go on. Just remember that in this case you are the exception and not the rule.
> That's on your ISP, not NAT. It's no different to your ISP delivering gigabit to last mile and using dialup links for connectivity. They need to adequately resource the network.
NAT being stateful is ultimately the cause of this. No statefulness, no need for (additional!) expensive equipment, no resource constraints.
Give me some numbers then on how this materially affects latency or bandwidth.