Comment by tim_at_ping

Comment by tim_at_ping 4 hours ago

19 replies

Hello,

A (different) proxy company owner here. This sucks! Sorry that you lost out on so much bandwidth.

Feel free to reach out to me at tim@pingproxies.com and I'd be happy to get you set up on our service and credit you with 100GB of free bandwidth to help soften the blow. I'll also be able to get you pricing alittle better than you're currently on if you are interested ;)

Within the next few months we're also releasing a bunch of tools to help stop things like this happening on our residential network such as some intelligent routing logic, spend controls and a few other things.

You may also want to look into Static Residential ISP Proxies - we charge these per IP address rather than bandwidth and they often end up more economical. We work with carriers like Spectrum, Comcast & AT&T directly to get IP addresses on their networks so they look like residential connections but host them in datacenters - this way you get 99.99%+ availability, 1G+ throughput, stable IP addresses and have unlimited bandwidth.

@ everyone else in the thread; if you run a start-up and need proxies then email me - happy to credit you with 50GB free residential bandwidth + give some advice on infra if needed.

Cheers, Tim at Ping

SteveNuts 4 hours ago

I’m interested to know how your residential connections are sourced.

It says they’re “ethically sourced”, but it seems like malware/botnet like behavior.

Are these residential users aware their traffic is siphoned off for this purpose?

  • 9cb14c1ec0 3 hours ago

    Literally everyone says they use ethical sourcing, but I never believe that about any residential proxy service without solid proof.

  • tim_at_ping 3 hours ago

    Our main business is Static ISP Proxies; here we liaise directly with datacenters and carriers such as ATT, Comcast and others to bring subnets to their network and we'll then purchase IP transit from them.

    We do also have residential peer proxies available - you're right to have ethical concerns as there are bad actors out their that effectively build botnets and spread malware to get their nodes but the industry has developed a lot over the last few years and there are numerous companies, including ourselves, which have pretty strict ethical guidelines. Their are three main ways to ethically source real residential nodes:

    1. Direct payment to peers for traffic sent through their devices. There are several networks like EarnApp, Honey, Pawns and others where people can sign up and earn money for bandwidth sent through their devices. We liaise with these networks to add nodes to our pool.

    2. Quid pro quo with peer through providing free apps in return for the ability to route traffic through their devices. We don't currently engage in this method but we are planning on doing so within the next 12 months through a free VPN - the important thing here is that peers have to understand what they're signing up for in return for the free service - as long as you're upfront, then it is my belief that their is informed consent and it is therefore ethical; there is often a good value proposition to the customer in these cases i.e spend $7 a month on a paid VPN service or get a free one in return for exchanging a small amount of bandwidth which has zero marginal cost.

    3. Offer SDK to developers to monetize applications - this is pretty common and while it is similar to 2. - the ability to distribute the SDK to various developers makes it easier to get a large number of peers online. Again though, its important app developers provide notice of this to their users and most reputable SDK providers have strict guidelines and mandatory screens that must be shown to end users prior to registering them as a residential proxy node.

    There is also a lot of other things that are involved with making an ethical network - a big thing is to just signal that bad actors and criminals aren't welcome on your network. This is usually done by banning certain domains; for example, we ban all .edu and .gov domains as well as most banking/finance websites + are a member of the Internet Watch Foundation and block their listed domains. This has stops bad actors from using our proxy network for evil + protects peers in the network from bad activity going through their devices.

    Happy to answer any other questions if you have them :)

    • nikau 2 hours ago

      > there is often a good value proposition to the customer in these cases i.e spend $7 a month on a paid VPN service or get a free one in return for exchanging a small amount of bandwidth which has zero marginal cost.

      Until someone sends bomb threats or downloads child porn via your IP....

    • oefrha an hour ago

      Apparently you consider both 2 and 3 ethical, and your ethical company is at least expanding to 2. In that case, your ethical standard is just very different from many (most?) of us; we classify 2 and 3 as “shady as fuck”, and 1 as questionable.

      • Dylan16807 20 minutes ago

        Shady okay, but I think your line about ethics being "very different" is going too far. "Here is a free VPN that will use some of your bandwidth for other people's connections." is a pretty fair trade. And you don't seem to be accusing them of hiding things or tricking those users, but saying a deal like that is inherently objectionable.

      • Spivak an hour ago

        1 is clearly ethical, someone has to install an app specifically for this in exchange for money. Your ISP might not like it but since when does anyone care about an ISP ToS? You're not allowed to pirate movies either according to your ISP.

    • greyface- 3 hours ago

      Are you concerned with this activity being prohibited by the AUP of your users' ISP? Do you allow eyeball ASes to opt out of having their network resold in this way?

      • tim_at_ping 3 hours ago

        Not at all. Firstly, just from a legal standpoint, the AUPs aren't signed by us; they're signed by the customer and as long as they understand what they're doing through us ensuring we get informed consent, then its their responsibility and judgement on whether they want to break the rules.

        On to the ethics of it, again I find it pretty hard to side with ISPs here since the only reason they don't want this activity on their network is because they don't want the additional bandwidth flowing through their fiber and personally, I believe if you buy a 100mb or a 1G internet line from a carrier then it should be yours to use as you wish as long as it remains within the law. This is compounded by the fact that carriers themselves seem to have a tendency to disregard user / privacy agreements and have been happy to sell metadata and location information to any data brokers without ever checking with their customers whether its okay or not.

        This is obviously the opinion of someone who has a stake in the game but when it comes to web-scraping, VPN usage, proxies and internet usage in general I tend to find myself believing in a free and open web with any blocks, restrictions or censorship usually being a bad thing.

    • FusspawnUK 2 hours ago

      Hey, Any experience with running bots for games upon your network, Most of them will block signups/auto ban datacenter ip's at this point, Curious if you might be a valid alternative.

      • tim_at_ping 2 hours ago

        Best to hop on with support@pingproxies.com and explain your use-case. They'll be able to say whether or not we have a service that fits your needs.

        Cheers, Tim at Ping

  • chimen 4 hours ago

    They are never ethically sourced. Ethically for them means placing a phrase in a 10k word TOS when victims installs app X, game y which loads their sdk. Ethically here means "we warned them in a TOS"

    • LargoLasskhyfv 3 hours ago

      Huh?

      > We work with carriers like Spectrum, Comcast & AT&T directly to get IP addresses on their networks so they look like residential connections but host them in datacenters - this way you get 99.99%+ availability, 1G+ throughput, stable IP addresses and have unlimited bandwidth.

      • chimen 3 hours ago

        mhm, meanwhile his website says he has "Access our 115+ Million proxy network." huh?