Comment by Teever

Comment by Teever 2 months ago

10 replies

How much environmental destruction would you consider unacceptable for an endeavour like Starship?

How do you justify that amount of environmental destruction by a single organization like SpaceX in context of the tragedy of the commons?

s1artibartfast 2 months ago

How much is an interesting question because it is difficult to quantify - There is no "unit" for ecological destruction. I said above, i think it is worth paving over the entire estuary, which is about 2 square miles.

If I were to put an upper limit on it, it would probably be 100x that.

As for justification, I think that the common value of the local habitat is miniscule, and the common value of SpaceX is immense.

some small number of people use the wild refuge for bird watching and the like, meanwhile SpaceX internet provides millions of people access to education, telemedicine, employment, and/or entertainment. Further development will help advance global Astronomy and encourage space exploration.

  • Teever 2 months ago

    You say this as if the refuge is a thing that lives in isolation and isn't connected to the broader environment in which it exists.

    Do you think that it is possible that the destruction of some distant ecological system could destroy this one? And by extension do you think that it is possible that the destruction of this system could destroy another one?

    • s1artibartfast 2 months ago

      I have no misconception of isolation. I studied postgraduate marine biology before following the money into biotech, and have about a dozen friends in state environmental agencies.

      There would be some consequences, but within limits. The earth wouldnt stop spinning and explode. There would likely be some marginal impact to migratory birds and local fishery, but it wouldn't cause mountainous in Tibet to go extinct or anything like that.

      Anyways, Costal wetlands usually change constantly under natural conditions. Most of our static wetlands are already extremely unnatural, because cities and states have gone to great lengths to modify them in some ways and keep them from changing. They are about as natural as central park or a zoo.

      • Teever 2 months ago

        Is a tragedy of the commons scenario possible here?

        • s1artibartfast 2 months ago

          yes, I think the tragedy of the commons is letting a few birds and deranged environmentalists get in the way of launching rocketships.

          I see it the same way as if someone was holding up building a hospital because of an anthill, while children died waiting.

ryan93 2 months ago

Natural erosion destroys orders of magnitude more wetland than spacex.

  • squigz 2 months ago

    Yeah and the key word there is "natural"

    • inglor_cz 2 months ago

      Not for me. If natural outcomes of type X and frequency Y are tolerable to us and we don't fight them, it indicates that this sort of outcome should be tolerable in general.

      • serf 2 months ago

        the method of action is an important variable as well.

        the wildlife of a wetlands that undergoes a drought has a chance to spring back once reintroduced to water.

        the wildlife of a wetlands that is chemically poisoned will not spring back to life without either lots of time or remediation efforts.

        'on the box' both situations look the same : no wildlife -- but they're not.

        The reasons matter, more data than just statistical prevalence is needed here in order to assess the damage realistically in the attempt at scoring man-made disaster against natural disaster.

        • inglor_cz 2 months ago

          This is a good correction, thank you. Yes, modality matters.