Comment by commandersaki 2 days ago
Uh what is a mitm cert? You're the custodian of the private key associated with the certificate, not LetsEncrypt.
And any CA can generate a certificate to MITM anything. That's why it's pretty much a requirement to submit all certs issued to Certificate Transparency, and if you're found to be misbehaving expect to receive ire from CA/B.
The whole system and everything built on it that underlies trust in encryption on the modern Internet is designed in a way that requires parties called certificate authorities. That's just the design, since it was largely designed for two unrelated people to establish secure communication.
Clearly, it is not required to use a third party. First of all, you can sign your own cert using itself, then verify it manually. However, this is not the trust model that most Internet software uses. That model is closer to what SSH does, sometimes called TOFU (Trust On First Use). The model that is intended is for the certificate chain to be verified back to a trust root (ignoring other wrinkles.) There's really no particular reason why self-signed certificates must be supported.
Note that I don't think this makes the bug report invalid. It seems like a regression that is not intentional. However, the important point is that a third party still isn't needed to use the system as intended. You can, in fact, issue your own CA certificates, trust them on your devices, and then use those to sign your own certificates, making yourself the authority. This will work even on iOS as far as I know, and it follows the typical trust model so software should handle it as expected (though apps that use certificate pinning or bundle the Mozilla CA certificates statically instead of using the operating system's trust store may not work, but by and large it works.)
Personally, I just use Let's Encrypt. That way other people can establish a "secure" connection to my devices, too.
You can, you just have to use iTunes from your computer like it’s 2003 to add it to your music library.
It's not being required. just that the thread is about Let's Encrypt which ostensibly easier than setting up your own CA and distributing the root certificates to your devices. Which isn't too difficult but given how many people apparently use self-signed certificates, it's a bit high a bar.
Self-signed certs were a defect — people were used to just click OK and blackhats exploited that.
OP wants support for the special case where only the cert issuer trusts the cert (he has his own self-signed cert). Apple and others do support that: You make a private CA, trust that CA in the device, and then use that CA to sign certs for your IMAP server. IIRC (and this is from vague memory) you may need to configure yourself to be a company that manages employees' devices.
> Uh what is a mitm cert? You're the custodian of the private key associated with the certificate, not LetsEncrypt.
Don’t be obtuse. Letsencrypt and every other trusted CA has the ability to issue new certs for any domain at any time without you knowing.
There is absolutely no requirement to submit these to Certificate Transparency. That’s a thing some browsers do, but not most mail clients.
If you don’t trust the root CAs at all and only trust your self signed cert or only trust another signing cert you control, then a mitm isn’t possible without getting your private signing cert keys.
Not that it removes you entirely from the PKI ecosystem as you seem to desire, but in case you’re not aware since 2017 CAs are required to check and honour the CAA DNS records you set. These specify which CAs are allowed to issue certificates for your domain.
If any CA issues a certificate anyway, they’re in violation of requirement 3.2.2.8. Don’t know what you’re up to, but I have to imagine it would have to be pretty interesting to someone for one of those companies to face down an existential threat and misissue a certificate for your domain.
> Don’t be obtuse. Letsencrypt and every other trusted CA has the ability to issue new certs for any domain at any time without you knowing.
You shouldn't use words you don't understand. I already pointed this out.
> There is absolutely no requirement to submit these to Certificate Transparency. That’s a thing some browsers do, but not most mail clients.
If you want to be in Chrome bundle or Safari/Mac bundle you need to submit to at least one approved CT log. If you're found misbehaving or issuing non compliant certificates, expect ire from CA/B and potential ejection from certificate trust stores. This has happened quite a number of times, and CAs in the WebPKI trust are highly unlikely to issue a MITM certificate.
why should I require some third party's permission to do encryption between one of my computers and another one of my computers?