Comment by cogman10

Comment by cogman10 2 days ago

6 replies

And continues to make. The NHS, for example, is a major source of funding for research into new drugs and treatments. mRNA vaccines came from decades of NHS funded research that the manufacturers are just now picking up and running with.

It should also be pointed out that economic goodness is not and should not be the be-all end-all reason for government spending. Governments building parks, for example, is a social good with little economic value (or at very least hard to quantify benefits).

In the case of things like medicine, government spending there has a social good of limiting communicable disease which is more important than how much money a drug company can make off a drug.

For something like TSMC putting plants in the US, even if it's somewhat economically disadvantageous we are still talking about bringing onshore more jobs and training for US citizens which will generally increase our capabilities here and the satisfaction of those employees.

Trying to get onshore development of electronics, the government basically has 2 levers to pull, either subsidizing building new manufacturing or applying tariffs to incoming tech goods. One of those levers has the negative consequence of raising prices on tech goods for everyone while we wait for manufacturing to build out.

lostlogin 2 days ago

> the government basically has 2 levers to pull

That’s simplistic and assumes a baseline where the relationship with the government starts at zero.

The company pays taxes. There can be negotiations over the tax rate, which is not a subsidy so much as a ‘tax you less’ type arrangement. This can happen at multiple levels for a company like Apple, even beyond the state/federal thing. The repatriation of billions of dollars of earnings is also in play.

  • cogman10 2 days ago

    TSMC doesn't pay taxes to the US government (at least, not significant taxes until recently). And that's what we are trying to onshore, the fabrication capabilities.

    We could try and incentivize a company like Apple to fabricate in the US, but the simple fact is that (until recently with the new TSMC fabs) we did not have the fabrication capabilities in the US needed to make apple silicon. Apple does not have the capabilities to make these fabs either.

    You can cut taxes to 0 for US fabrication plants, but there are simple overhead costs that are hard to get away from. That's why an actual subsidy is needed.

    I mean, you could exempt fabrication plants from employment and environmental laws to allow them to operate cheaper... but that's sort of monstrous.

trashtester 2 days ago

The main reason for TSMC to build plants in the US is as a hedge against a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.

That outweighs anything like jobs or economic efficiency (given no such war) by a couple of orders of magnitude.

And this really applies whether or not the US would join the war on Taiwan's side. TSMC production would be likely to be shut down for 5-10 years, regardless.

eru 2 days ago

> For something like TSMC putting plants in the US, even if it's somewhat economically disadvantageous we are still talking about bringing onshore more jobs and training for US citizens which will generally increase our capabilities here and the satisfaction of those employees.

And completely ignores customers.