Comment by L0stLink
Comment by L0stLink 3 days ago
[flagged]
Comment by L0stLink 3 days ago
[flagged]
The reasons behind these polarized emotions will differ based on who you ask and are too many to list. Both sides feel entitled to the land, I personally don't care what the place is called, I just want everyone living in it to have equal rights and for justice to exist in the land. But that requires persecution and killing to end – which I don't see happening in the foreseeable future as tragic as that is.
> I'm still not really sure why Isreal causes such polarised emotions.
Not to state the obvious but the largeest distinction between israel and every other country its that its a mostly jewish country.
> THe war intensified, but it was only when all the players started talking did something good happen
The bigger issue here is that while talks have been attempted many times, there is a sense on both sides of bad faith negotiations. In Ireland, bad as it was, there was a feeling the other side "would get too much" but not that they were outright lying about their aims.
> The problem here is that the number of parties that need to talk are quite high
There is also the problem of little value to human life. Religious fanatism, afterlife promises and even goverment sponsored programs such as martyr funds have devalued human life to a point where here is little basis on what to use as foundational goal for peace.
American funding to Saudi Arabia permitted tons of funding for terrorists groups in the region. Saudi has also bombed 400k people in Yemen with American missiles and planes. 9/11 had Saudi pilots. Pakistan an ally for the US helped hide Osama Bin Laden. Mujahadeen had CIA funding and just recently Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David where allies of the US are honoured.
If you somehow think that Israel funding is unique, specially in that region, you are not paying attention.
Which again begs the question, why is Israel singularly called out.
> other country its that its a mostly jewish country.
I mean yeah that was a thing, but I would suggest that its less of a unique part as it once was.
> Religious fanatism, afterlife promises
I mean that's a strong motivator, but sectarianism isn't new or unique to this conflict. Moreover its only part of the story. People are fighting because someone they knew has been injured, killed or suffered from this war. Yes there are people who are also into making a new eden or some shit, but they are often only a small but tediously vocal minority.
> I would suggest that its less of a unique part as it once was.
I would argue its more relevant than ever. Anti semitism is on the rise globally. Multiple groups like Russia and Iran have made it the corner stone of some of its geopolitical strategy. The whole Soros is behind every disaster in the West is a russian psy op. Covid vaccines are jewish experiments on people is blood libel and also russian funded. Trans people and immigration waves are jewish plots to destabilise the west, another russian op. Half the right wing influencer peddle in antisemitism or related conspiracies left right and centre. Jordan peterson neo marxism, stephen miller (Trumps advisor) great replacement theory etc
With that amount of misinformation spreading without control in social media, a uniquely jewish country is a perfect target for the misdirected anger.
See a genocide in Sudan getting 0 attention while the first week after Oct 7th, before any large Israel counter offensive there were already groups organising anti war protests and marches.
> sectarianism isn't new or unique to this conflict
Sectarianism is less of a problem. Its the religious aspect. If I think there is no afterlife I would protect my children, if I believe death at war is the most holy thing there is you end up with figures like Mother of martyrs,Umm Nidal, who was the first woman elected in Gaza in the election Hamas won. She was a viral figure because of a video telling her 17 year old boy to go and kill jews and not come home, he went to a university and shot 5 people and injured 23 before being shot down during the second intifada.
No other conflict has mothers begging their underage kids to go kill civilians. You will not see videos in Ukraine of mother asking babies to fight. Because that is an insane thing to do and really makes political compromise really difficult when human life's value is rendered worthless.
There is also the issue of Israel not caring about Palestinian lives, that has less to do with religion but the constant state of threat the entire country is under has given the military a shoot first ask later approach that again really devalues life.
> People are fighting because someone they knew has been injured, killed or suffered from this war.
Revenge does not explain a conflict that has been going on for a century or more. There was unrest from the late 1800s in the region with the first waves of Jewish immigration. No one knew somoene injured back then.
From a current stand point, after losing in 1946,1947, 1956, 1967, 1983,2002 and 2014 you would at some point just concede, set peace terms and then use diplomacy for compromise post war talks. Kinda what Ireland did, they lost, gave up the terrorism and fought in the courts and internationally for rights and governance over the region. Northern ireland being part of Ireland was closer during brexit than at any point during the IRA.
Palestine really has no more fight and still rejects every 2 state solution due to disagreeing on terms. Which I get that losing parts of east jerusalmen and the settlement locations are insulting to them, but they had those in 1947 and still turned it down which makes it hard to know what they would actually agree to.
It's amazing how little empathy you can have for a country that had 1000+ of its civilians murdered just because it's a primarily Jewish country.
As long as nobody's forgetting the Qibya massacre I don't really think much empathy is lost. It's a dirty war fought by ideologically-motivated pundits on both sides. The current US administration can barely even show their support for Israel without being (rightfully) questioned on the morality of supporting things like the Hannibal directive and Dahiya doctrine.
If this was just about Israel being a primarily Jewish country, there would be no discussion. It is more broadly about the IDF pushing the boundary of war in ways that makes other first-world countries uncomfortable by association.
I'm still not really sure why Isreal causes such polarised emotions.
However, one thing is certain, this level of polarisation is not going to help.
The "fixing" of Israel and its neighbours requires a change of attitude from many people, including us.
Currently, there are no "good guys" only future victims.
Its all to easy to see someone bomb civilians and say "well yeah its justified because they did it first." Ok, I understand, but how do you get to a state where that doesn't happen again?
There are other wars we can draw some parallels from that might help. Most notably is the irish civil war in the 6 counties (1919-200x). Britian went round shooting anyone that looked like the IRA, and the IRA went round shooting andbombing, the UDF et all also bombed and shot whomever they thought were wrong.
THe war intensified, but it was only when all the players started talking did something good happen (Ireland, UK, USA)
The problem here is that the number of parties that need to talk are quite high, and two of the main actors are currently run be recalcitrant pricks.