Comment by dotancohen 2 days ago
Yes, but the API at the end is providing the core functionality. Simply swapping out one LLM model for another - let alone by a different company altogether - will completely change the effectiveness and usefulness of the application.
The premier open weight models don't even comparatively perform well on the public benchmarks compared to frontier models. And that's assuming at least some degree of benchmark contamination for the open weight models.
While I don't think they're completely useless (though its close), calling them fantastic replacements feels like an egregious overstatement of their value.
EDIT: Also wanted to note that I think this becomes as much an expectations-setting exercise as it is evaluation on raw programming performance. Some people are incredibly impressed by the ability to assist in building simple web apps, others not so much. Experience will vary across that continuum.
Yeah, in my comparing deepseek coder 2 lite (the best coding model I can find that’ll run on my 4090) to Claud sonnet under aider…
Deep seek lite was essentially useless. Too slow and too low quality edits.
I’ve been programming for about 17 years, so the things I want aider to do are a little more specific than building simple web apps. Larger models are just better at it.
I can run the full deepseek coder model on some cloud and probably get very acceptable results, but then it’s no longer local.
Their interfacing software __is__ open source; and, they're asking for your OpenAI api key to operate. I would expect / desire open source code if I were to use that, so I could be sure my api key was only being used for my work, so it's only my work that I'm paying for and it's not been stolen in some way.
My older brother who got me into coding learned to code in Assembly. He doesn't really consider most of my work writing in high level languages to be "coding". So maybe there's something here. But if I had to get into the underlying structure, I could. I do wonder whether the same can be said for people who just kludge together a bunch of APIs that produce magical result sets.
> But if I had to get into the underlying structure, I could.
I think the relevant analogy here would be to run a local model. There are several tools to easily run local models for a local API. I run a 70b finetune with some tool use locally on our farm, and it is accessible to all users as a local openAI alternative. For most applications it is adequate and data stays on the campus area network.
I think the argument is that stitching things together at a high level is not really coding. A bit of a no true scotsmen perspective. The example is that anything more abstract than assembly is not even true coding, let alone creating a wrapper layer around an LLM
Well, as we see with AI applications like "Leo AI" and "Continue", using a locally run LLM can be fantastic replacements for proprietary offerings.